View single post by Joe Kelley
 Posted: Wed Jun 5th, 2019 12:53 am
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Joe Kelley


Joined: Mon Nov 21st, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 6405
“Pure democracy is a form of government in which people vote on all policy initiatives directly.”

First, there is no such thing as a pure democracy, other than someone’s imaginary ideal.

Second, there is evidence suggesting that the organic, grass-roots, original version of democracy was not intended to place absolute, arbitrary, power in the hands of a few oligarchs.

The Athenian Constitution:
Government by Jury and Referendum
"The practice of selecting government officials randomly (and the Athenians developed some fairly sophisticated mechanical gadgets to ensure that the selection really was random, and to make cheating extremely difficult) is one of the most distinctive features of the Athenian constitution. We think of electoral politics as the hallmark of democracy; but elections were almost unknown at Athens, because they were considered paradigmatically anti-democratic. Proposals to replace sortition with election were always condemned as moves in the direction of oligarchy.
Why? Well, as the Athenians saw it, under an electoral system no one can obtain political office unless he is already famous: this gives prominent politicians an unfair advantage over the average person. Elections, they thought, favor those wealthy enough to bribe the voters, powerful enough to intimidate the voters, flashy enough to impress the voters, or clever enough to deceive the voters. The most influential political leaders were usually Horsemen anyway, thanks to their social prominence and the political following they could obtain by dispensing largesse among the masses. (One politician, Kimon, won the loyalty of the poor by leaving his fields and orchards unfenced, inviting anyone who was hungry to take whatever he needed.) If seats on the Council had been filled by popular vote, the Horsemen would have disproportionately dominated it — just as, today, Congress is dominated by those who can afford expensive campaigns, either through their own resources or through wealthy cronies. Or, to take a similar example, in the United States women have had the vote for over half a century, and yet, despite being a majority of the population, they represent only a tiny minority of elected officials. Obviously, the persistence of male dominance in the economic and social sphere has translated into women mostly voting for male candidates. The Athenians guessed, probably rightly, that the analogous prestige of the upper classes would lead to commoners mostly voting for aristocrats.
That is why the Athenians saw elections as an oligarchical rather than a democratic phenomenon. Above all, the Athenians feared the prospect of government officials forming a privileged class with separate interests of their own. Through reliance on sortition, random selection by lot, the Council could be guaranteed to represent a fair cross-section of the Athenian people — a kind of proportional representation, as it were. Random selection ensured that those selected would be representatives of the people as a whole, whereas selection by vote made those selected into mere representatives of the majority."

Third, the so-called “founders” were at least 2 groups: 1. Federalists, 2. Nationalists hiding behind a false federalist label.

Suggesting that the “founders” who illegally usurped the existing federation are one group of people raises the vital question of which group?

The false Federalists managed to get their summary justice courts propped up over the common law jurisdiction. The true Federalists lost that battle. The false Federalists managed to get their subsidized slavery crimes against humanity secured for 20 years. The true Federalists lost that battle. The false Federalists managed to get their central banking fraud. The true Federalists lost that battle. The false Federalists managed to get arbitrary war profits flowing to them in “Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace” or variations on that lie. The true Federalists lost that battle. The false Federalists managed to get their “Mob Rule” under the pretense of a fraudulent democracy. The true Federalists lot the battle for equal footing which is the principle behind true federation, and true law for that matter. The false Federalists managed to get into every single individual's pocket at will, to steal anything worth stealing. The true Federalists lost that battle too.

The battle over the minds of people is demonstrably lost on the modern generation. Fake news prevails. Ignorance is bliss. Independent thought is against the fake law. Communicating independent thoughts is against the law, just ask Martin Luther King Jr. or Lavoy Finicum. Oh, wait, you can’t ask them, they were murdered by the criminals running the dictatorship.

To the citizens of the United States by Thomas Paine
November 15, 1802
"But a faction, acting in disguise, was rising in America; they had lost sight of first principles. They were beginning to contemplate government as a profitable monopoly, and the people as hereditary property. It is, therefore, no wonder that the "Rights of Man" was attacked by that faction, and its author continually abused. But let them go on; give them rope enough and they will put an end to their own insignificance. There is too much common sense and independence in America to be long the dupe of any faction, foreign or domestic.
But, in the midst of the freedom we enjoy, the licentiousness of the papers called Federal (and I know not why they are called so, for they are in their principles anti-federal and despotic), is a dishonor to the character of the country, and an injury to its reputation and importance abroad. They represent the whole people of America as destitute of public principle and private manners.”

Federalist Papers = CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, Facebook, Newsweek, and most of the propaganda spewed forth from Hollywood.

Submitted 6-4-2019, and once again not published.

First half published 6-10-2019, second half now awaiting moderation.