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 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2012 02:26 am
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bear
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Mana: 
"I think there is a serious error in failing to know that the current government is counterfeit, or crime made legal, and therefore the concept of defense against crime is falsely viewed as being morally wrong, as morality and legality are confused by that bait and switch routine."

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“The thing being counterfeited is often opposite the genuine article, and knowing this aught to clue the person knowing this on the actual tool being counterfeited, as to why it was counterfeited, and what the genuine article was actually designed to accomplish.”

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“The base of the evil is merely evil, it is a desire to destroy, the coverings invented to hide the evil are legion, pick from the hat, any excuse will do, but specific excuses do tend to fit the occasion better than less powerful ones.”

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“Evil people will invent any lie to cover up their crimes, and the heart of evil, to me, is a failure to meet the challenge to raise the bar of quality and lower the bar of cost.”

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"The Nazi Political POWER (including a crushing monopoly money POWER) is no more Christian than the Zionist Political POWER (including a crushing monopoly money POWER) is Jewish."

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"lf by "government" the user of the word means "them" and not "us" then how can it be "our" government?"

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“If criminals hire a better liar to lie for them, what business is it of mine?”

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“If all the Trillions of Dollars Spent on keeping the Monopoly Money Fraud Power maintained, destroying so much in that effort, was spent only on Solar Panels, nothing else, and sold at cost, or "given" away, instead of all that actual, measurable, destruction there would be how much production measurable as electricity and whatever was made with electricity?

How much would electricity cost if every bomb, missile, military base overseas, solider, food, clothing, supplies, shipped overseas, was turned back in time, all the way back to the decision to invade Pennsylvania by Washington in 1794, and instead of that investment in maintaining the Money Monopoly Fraud business, all that POWER was exclusively spent on making Solar Panels, how much would electricity cost per Kilowatt/Hour now?

What would the world be like if no one ever had to work another minute to pay for transportation fuel, home heating fuel, and every single business that requires fuel, POWER, no longer had to add that cost to the price of what they sell?

What, instead of spending all that POWER on destroying things to keep the Money Monopoly Fraud Power secure, was instead spent on making more POWER out of less POWER?”
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Make the best of what God gave you; better than anyone else in your shoes!
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Now there is a Consolidated Government or Legal Crime Cabal, and it is past time to be accurate with words - in my opinion.
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Joe's Law goes like this:

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production.
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"The clock aught to be turned back to 1788 to get an idea as to why The Civil War (not at all civil) had to happen, was made to happen, and how "citizens" became "targets"."

Last edited on Mon Dec 10th, 2012 11:28 pm by bear

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 12:52 am
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bear
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"I think there is a serious error in failing to know that the current government is counterfeit, or crime made legal, and therefore the concept of defense against crime is falsely viewed as being morally wrong, as morality and legality are confused by that bait and switch routine."

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2741992 :

In post: July 4th 2013 Liberty Day Challenge

In reply to comment: Its a...............Book! (see in situ)

Economic Information Revolution

Submitted by Josf on Sat, 09/15/2012 - 13:08. Permalink


"bear: Oh, you mean books don’t have to come from the store anymore! How exciting! Very competitive indeed! Bear is learning all kinds of things from this free book! You are very smart Joe!"

How interesting is it to find out that marketing can include such things as dumping?

Not only can someone be greedy, a Scrooge, supposedly evil incarnate, by miserly practices of always making sure that the soiled end of the stick is handled by other people, and not only are there generous charitable people who give away everything to other people, supposedly copies of Jesus Himself, but there are people who give things so as to then take things and there are people who take things so as to give things, and in the middle is equity?

Modern day information transfer is nothing short of a revolution and in order to compete there are inventions that include free, or no monetary price, information packets available everywhere on these terminals we call Lap Tops, Cell Phones, Personal Computers, I-Pads, and many other names for basically the same thing: terminals.

Individual connecting points, or terminals, connecting to one homogenous medium of exchange and here you may want to know a thing or two about Electricity and the concept of how electricity finds the path of least resistance.

If violent people require falsehood and false people require censorship and targets for victimization require accurate information concerning their impending injury then how does that information manage to travel from one potential victim to another through a medium of exchange whereby there is the least resistance resisting the free flow of that vital information?

I have cases in point, and so do you, and we can compare these medium of exchanges, how they were produced, why they were produced, how they became corrupted and abused, and the capacity these inventions presented mankind in linking one to another for good or bad.

1.
Books
2.
Television
3.
Internet

Person A desires to murder or enslave Person B, while Person C desires to inform Person B of that impending doom.

Person B is busy in the pursuit of happiness while avoiding any resort to deceit, threats of violence, or violence upon other people, so categories can be as such:

Person A is a Criminal

Person B is an innocent person (innocent of crime so named)

Person C is informed about crime and generous or honest or merely talkative a blabbermouth or the town crier, or a Modern Day Paul Revere, a whistle blower, informer, news outlet, author, writer, sign maker, inventor, producer, and maintainer of vital questions and competitive answers, intending to connect the information about criminals to each current or potential victim, just in case the victims may want to travel past all the resistance and just in case the victims may want to find out in time that information, so as to have the time, and the resources, to avoid being victims.

So accurate, informative, useful, productive, defensive, information, where the information can empower the victims with the power required to avoid being victims WILL weaken criminals and raise the costs of doing crime and lower the benefits of doing crime on the criminals scale of cost over benefit.

So criminals place road blocks in between the information and the victims as the criminals invent, produce, and maintain these costly investments, whereby they are faced with that very unfortunate consequence of the Law of Diminishing Returns, as each victim connects to the powerful information that allows them to avoid being victims RAISES the need to find more victims, and to squeeze more value out of each victim, so as to invent, produce, and maintain more road blocks that keep the victims in the dark.

Books, like the Bible, connected The Word with people who were powerful enough to read The Word, so criminals had to invent ways to censor The Word, or their way of life would run out of victims rapidly, and their way of life would starve out the number of criminals, as the costs of living for criminals increase beyond a sustainable level, and as the benefits for crime dry up along with the ready supply of ready victims.

History books, written by Inquisition Victors, Pogrom Victors, Crusade Victors, and other Winners of massive expenditures of POWER aimed at massive torture and massive slaughter, throughout the history that has become common knowledge among the recent past and current generations of mankind.

A person capable of reading The Bible, and The Word, may be powerful enough to accurately discriminate the difference between information that benefits the criminals and information that benefits the victims including the true meaning of such things as The Inquisition, The Crusades, and World War II.

Burning witches, for example, and extracting confessions through torture, may have worked well for the criminals at the expense of the victims for a time that lasted too long, but no such False Front can be repeated in Modern Times.

Seriously?

Is there a book, available to anyone who may want to know, sold at cost, where the author warns the potential victims of a new adaptation of The Inquisition, in Modern Times, whereby the criminals have again taken over the sources of POWER and are again on the March, torturing and burning people for fun and profit?

Common Sense?

76 Pages that include such things as this:

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."

What if a few people, or just two people, manage to combine their disconnected studies of divergent information, one being a spiritual education, and the other being a political economy education, and it becomes obvious, at least to these two individuals, that government does not have to be evil at all, and therefore this information, if it is true, can empower the current victims, and the potential victims with the defensive power that can enable honest productive people to be able to afford life on Earth for a little wile longer, if not for eternity?

What is that called?

Ravings of conspiracy theory combined with bible thumping Jesus freakishness?

Heaven Forbid!

We two may not be as alone as I may think, and my guess is that you have similarly experienced crushing despair in the face of what may first appear to be insurmountable opposition to the truth.

How much does one person give up in the effort to transfer vital questions and accurate answers to fellow Friends of Liberty and is the cost benefit analysis profitable for that individual?

How is profit measured?

If someone knocks on the door, someone soliciting a connection, and the messenger intends to connect the person behind the door with The Word of God, does the messenger encounter resistance, and is there a way that the message can find the path of least resistance, around the door, and can the message find the eager listeners, those who are desperate for vital questions and accurate answers?

Is there bad things coming?

Can those bad things be avoided?

Pay more and don't question the payments?

"You were having such an nice conversation with willl over there in that Goode post. What happened? Did you hurt his feelings by calling him a dictator? Joe, he seemed like he was learning. He accepted your premise about the consolidation of power in a single day practically. I took me months before I was able to stomach it."

Will encountered my "if the shoe fits" routine. You know how that works, don't you? He may have tried on the shoe, and he may have found that the shoe cannot fit him, or her, and so such things are a waste of time.

What if the shoe fitting resulted in a well fitting shoe, like Cinderella?

I don't know, but I notice how you set the standard as to how discussions can work with me. Why has our discussion managed to bear fruit, and the discussion with Will was lacking the will to continue?

I don't know, one of us isn't confessing?

" I took me months before I was able to stomach it. Remember who I thought I was talking to? I even asked you if you were the “C” word."

I took that as you asking me to try on the Communist shoes, and I have to ask, real Communists like Lenin, or counterfeit Communists like Hippies in the 60s?

Which shoe, exactly, do you want me to see if the shoe fits?

I have a long way to go before I order the legal deaths of 20, or 200, Million people, for fun and profit. I prefer not to start down that road of Communism. I prefer to warn people about how far down that road we are already progressing.

I prefer to warn people about how the Dirty Compromise in 1788 was a huge step down the road that can be called Communism, even before Lenin or Marx coined the word Communism.

"Why did your conversation end so soon with willl? Because he had “respectful,” and yes he did use that word, disagreements? Maybe he just didn’t understand yet and needed to talk more. Didn’t you like talking to him?"

Will laid it out, it seems to me, without reservation, which is a whole lot more than many people do, and so I am grateful for such generosity of spirit, that is The Spirit of Liberty, it seems to me.

I just happen to think that Will is suffering from a closed loop involving a false principle concerning how power works in our human condition. Authority of Man upon Man is a lie, so why believe it? I'd like to know, but then that door was shut?

Chalk it up to irreconcilable differences, or semantics, depending upon want is is?

Man upon Man is confused with Man for Mankind? One can be confused with the other when language becomes deceptive?

Can language become deceptive or do people use tools to reach the goal of deception?

How can deception be measured?

How about an exemplary sentence, to be measured for deception?

Authority of Man upon Man is a lie, so why believe it?

Is that sentence deceptive? Does that sentence confess my goal of seeking deception?

"I also thought you were having an equitable conversation with ajnock until he had trouble with fiat currency, but I think he turned around abit on that."

Again, a few days ago, I'm talking with my wife, heading up to Las Vegas, to spend some time with our niece the nurse, time spend under the Aluminum Overcast, and on the way I tell my wife about the Standard being set on "how to" discuss with me. You set that Standard. This bear person, a she, and my wife is normally very suspicious about her husbands motives, even after 25 years of honest faithfulness, but in this there isn't even a hint of jealously, for some reason, possibly because there isn't any reason to be jealous, because discussions with me can be so difficult, special, but difficult, and better for everyone involved, when a Standard is being set, and set very high, as the conversation goes, my wife and I, as I inform my wife, about this Standard of discussion, now documented on this forum - in book form.

Again, I tell my wife, yesterday, how this is working out, and is it coincidence?

I don't know.

I've had the book idea, telling my wife, for some time now. I call the book Liberty for Kids. I say, other people discuss the topic, and occasionally I find someone, and I ask them to ask me questions, you know, I say, questions I ask myself all the time, I do this all the time, this is what I do, all the time, I say to my brother, for example, who appears to be waking up, and then that stops, no more questions being asked, and so the book sits, and is not written, I don't know how to do this alone, like playing chess alone, it is a closed loop, and then Bear shows up out of the blue.

What do you call that: coincidence?

BREAK

"I also thought you were having an equitable conversation with ajnock until he had trouble with fiat currency, but I think he turned around abit on that. People are not used to speaking your language. You know your words to mean what you know they mean, but most people hear the words and think of the counterfeited meaning. Isn’t it just possible to explain and teach to establish Friends IN Liberty? Maybe Friends of Liberty misunderstand and need to understand. Maybe they do not know they misunderstand."

Gold bugs? What is the meaning of that? Gold is fine, very good, but very expensive money, when adding up the costs associated with crime prevention, as it may not be a good idea to carry around pockets full of Gold in crime infested waters, advertizing the fact that, hey, look here, I'm ripe for the plucking, having, and holding large amounts of very launderable money.

Cash.

Real cash, if not the stuff needed for Tax Liabilities.

So the competition is really bad, you know, that fraudulent stuff used by very bad criminals who steal the law power, and then make it crime to use any other money.

Really bad things, those paper dollars, bad, bad, evil, evil, paper, the scourge of the earth, that paper, that, that, worthless, worthless paper?

So what is it, exactly, since I'm receiving mixed messages here, either the paper is worthless or it is evil and it can't be both can it?

Can it be worth less and be so powerful as to consume every scrap of extra value including the nails that nail down anything the can be nailed down?

I don't know, but I can ask the question, and find the accurate answers, such as the offering offered by Stephen Pearl Andrews in his essay that he thought or wrote, was "of interest to Gold Bugs", you know, the concept of a 3 sided fence.

BREAK

http://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/labadie/2916966.0001.001/2?rgn=f...

I was once more desperate to gain the ears of Conservative Republican Austrian Economists Gold Bug types, to get their angle of view clear in my mind, concerning information such as the above, which is based upon the work done by Josiah Warren in Equitable Commerce, but after so many decades of seeking this information, and coming up very short, it occurs to me that such things are trade secrets, keep secret, for fun and profit?

In the absence of confessions I am left with guess, and my own research, finding Menger and Rothbard, which was a Topic plopped onto the discussion table, here in this forum.

Splat, like a tortured human body wet with blood, sweat, and tears?

Or more like the splattering sound that might be heard when a Tar Baby is served up at the otherwise very attractive dinner on the dinner table?

Where are all my workers, employees, and the like, when good help is so hard to find - at a discount?

"It says to some it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to others it is not."

Here again the concept of closing doors quickly when Bible Thumpers appear on the threshold of the Kingdom, what happened to sanctuary?

How was it purchased, and who is handed the bill, to be paid without question?

Based upon as much as I can gather from your words there is little to disbelieve, mere common sense, reinforcements concerning ideas and concepts that are plagued with doubt and uncertainty, given the weight of the consequences for failing to know better.

As to the demarcation lines, well drawn, there is still room for equitable transfers of reinforcing information, despite the confidence in current belief, in my case, I just don't know, for example that this person named Jesus died for me. I just don't know that fact, if it is a fact, and we can call it belief, and how does that work in English, in other words?

"It says to some it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to others it is not."

OK.

Makes sense to me.

I don't HAVE, as in possession, a need to disbelieve that God can sacrifice his only begotten son for me, and my sins, while, currently, I see no such thing even being possible.

Would you be jealous if Jesus has a private conversation with me, before he pencils you in on his busy schedule?

Not me, but I'm not the type to slam the door in HIS face either.

________________________________________
And also Luke 8: 12 Those by the way side are they that hear ; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved .

And in that verse the devil take the word so that they cannot believe.
_________________________________________

I make sense of that, even past my line in the sand concerning someone else being held to account on my account, and what makes sense here, to me, is that Fear of God being written in 8, which is still not well understood by me, not enough understood to rattle it off in current writing.

I have to check the words again, and I can do that now, trying to connect the dots, again.

"The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate."

And now:

"Luke 8: 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."

To me, being so far incapable of accepting all the Words in the word (drawing the line in at least one place), the above makes sense in that The Word is (indirectly or directly) Hate Evil.

The Word = Hate Evil (English symbols, not Ancient Hebrew)

Take that away, not he symbols, but take away whatever IS hating evil, and what happens?

They, meaning human beings, will fail to know better, and Evil will Consume them? They will consume themselves?

Human Power will be used to destroy all life on Earth?

And such things, being Evil, and such things being deceptive, can be the False Front of Global Warming hiding the fact that productive people are providing the means by we suffer having Aluminum and Barium sprayed into the atmosphere causing Global Warming so that the few most powerful among us can inspire us to pay them even more of the stuff that provides the means by which we suffer?

Tax payments of aluminum cans? That explains why the least powerful among us are hanging out by the trash cans, collecting aluminum, so as to have it moved from the trash back into the circuit where the aluminum can then be sprayed over our heads?

If people can get one plant, a tomato plant, and farm it well enough, seeds can then be used to make more tomato plants, and then more, and then more, and that is too much power in the hands of just anyone, so let's send the authorities enough provisions to take the power of farming away from all those terrorists daring to grow their own food, and then, having only ONE licensed tomato seed producer, the price of a tomato seed can be jacked up to whatever a starving person is willing to do to get a meal, including hanging around garbage cans looking for aluminum cans?

Where is the door I can slam on that information?

Were are my ear plugs, my muzzle, and my blinders, when I need them so desperately, and now they don't even work, anymore, since they are Made in China and sold at WalMart?

Isn't it Football season?

BREAK

http://www.youtube.com/user/StormCloudsGathering

http://naturalrightsfoundation.org/

"Will you see what you think of the video..less than 15 minutes."

I am inspired by the video to go to the web page and submit articles for publication. I can write one up on my angle of view concerning the schedule where Americans are the losers, on purpose, so as to move World Reserve Currency POWER to Asia.

I have chores to do today, but I can work that angle soon.

" Last week you talked to me about what does the message instill within…well as you can see, the message instilled many things, but left me wondering about the source of the message and when the 3 stages were being discussed the music changed and made me afraid. So I am asking you, what does this message mean? Can you add a little bit about it to your book?"

I think there is a serious error in failing to know that the current government is counterfeit, or crime made legal, and therefore the concept of defense against crime is falsely viewed as being morally wrong, as morality and legality are confused by that bait and switch routine.

The Rebels in 1776, for example, were genuine agents of good government, when they avoided resort to deceit upon the innocent, and when they avoided resort to threats of violence upon the innocent, and when they avoided resort to violence upon the innocent.

That is very well recorded in many ways, such as the following quote:

“Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” Sam Adams

How does that stack up to this:

"Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpPABLW6F_A

Friends of Liberty, seeking to work toward being, and remaining, Friends IN Liberty (borrowed from Bear) do not resort to crime as a means of anything.

Government didn't do it.

The Gun didn't do it.

So I have that criticism of the inspiring video, if someone is inspired to confuse good government with crime made legal.

One is the opposite of the other, and confusing the two IS THE PROBLEM.

BREAK

Bear,

I have to get work done. I stopped the Tom Woods video on a very good suggestion by Tom Woods and we can play along. I will hit this ball back in your side of the court and ask you to offer the Top 10 Questions that will not be asked during the Election Debates (which I won't be watching without a representative of Liberty allowed into the "debates") and then when I get more free time (ha, ha) I will offer my Top 10 Questions That will be censored from History, or whatever title works best for these Top 10 Questions.

I will have my Top 10 done before returning, and then we can compare notes, to see which questions are more competitive, and why.

If you are inspired to consume your scarce power in this specific way - of course.




Joe

Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2012 12:54 am by bear

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 01:12 am
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bear
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Mana: 
“The thing being counterfeited is often opposite the genuine article, and knowing this aught to clue the person knowing this on the actual tool being counterfeited, as to why it was counterfeited, and what the genuine article was actually designed to accomplish.”

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2815776:

In post: Liberty Day Challenge July 4th 2013 V2

In reply to comment: b :) e :) a :) r :) (see in situ)

Finer, deeper, points worth measuring?

Submitted by Josf on Sun, 11/04/2012 - 14:34. Permalink

"So what does that make the dictator of that dictation?"

The concept of willful intent may be worth considering in any case. I've thought about this some and it is possible, it seems to me, to be less dangerous to life on earth in general, and less dangerous to one life on earth specifically, to be suffering from a dictator who is willfully, knowingly distorting the truth, whereby the actual goal is thoughtful, measured, and finite, whereby the victim is to be squeezed, and bled, and suffering, to a point just short of death, while the dictator who merely parrots a lie, where the dictator believes the lie, may not be as well governed, and the subjects are, or subject is, tortured and then murdered, for their own good - according to the well meaning, but evil, dictator.

So, which is the lesser of two evils?

1.
Willful, purposeful, deceivers, who dictate those deceptions, threats, and violence, while knowing their deceptions are false.

2.
Victims of deception, deceived themselves, whose actual motive is to "save the children" by torturing and murdering them?

The obvious conclusion is such that deception is bad, for those who are deceived, not as bad, for those who are not deceived.

Which brings back to my mind the words of Henry Ford:

________________________________
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
Henry Ford
_______________________________

"Wrote memory, not application of memory. i.e. you are right on calling me out on me believing socialism does something as opposed to humans doing something. I had to drive to town and back this afternoon. It was another time of enlightenment for me as I realized that was exactly what I had been doing."

That is a huge victory and you should certainly pat yourself on the back on this one, because this key unlocks very many more falsehoods along the way.

A huge victory.

"We are unionists"

As with counterfeit religion (crusades, inquisition, end times) the thing being counterfeited is often opposite the genuine article, and knowing this aught to clue the person knowing this on the actual tool being counterfeited, as to why it was counterfeited, and what the genuine article was actually designed to accomplish.

Socialism and capitalism are not opposites, capitalism (a pricing method) is a subset of socialism (scientific social study) so the counterfeit versions of Capitalism (Fascism exemplified with Nazi Germany) and the counterfeit version of Socialism (exemplified in Bolshevism Russia) are as opposite the original versions of capitalism and socialism as legal crime is opposite liberty - exactly so.

Exactly as opposite as accurate communication is opposite deception.

Exactly as opposite as is religion opposite false religion, and here is where this meaning may only make sense to someone who is truly religious, since non-religious people, or false religious people, may consider all religion to be false, so the analogy does not work for them, but suffice to say that an honest factual communication of truth, such as "do not look directly at the sun for more than a few seconds because you will harm your eyes", is opposite a lie such as "please stare at the sun for as long as you can stand it, because that is the right way to make your eyes work better for you".

"I think that group is speaking another language than Warren/Andrews, at least I think they are. What do you thing?"

I am grateful for having the opportunity to learn so much more than expected though this Forum, this medium of exchange, and in particular the Spiritual viewpoint, and now, in particular, the Common Law viewpoint, since I now have more keys to unlock more doors that have kept me out of rooms full of light.

The word Union, now, has a much greater significance, now that I can apply it to the Union of Law professionals, which is specifically designed to be monopolistic, to thereby make Law Power scarce, so as to make the cost of Law unfordable for specific people targeted for exploitation.

I wrote that paragraph that way, because now I am unlocking that door, where previously I was locked out, because I did not have the Common Law key.

Now I have the Common Law key, which can be analogous to your efforts to seek, and then find, the key that unlocks the lie of making things accountable for the actions of people, which you found, despite the closed loop that hid that key from you, in your own mind, which again, is a great victory.

If I have been a help in that great victory, then it is my pleasure, and a shared victory, so thanks for the opportunity, and the hard work.

"I was born 49 years ago. I only know how socialism is used by individuals today. I know how socialism is used by decision makers in our government."

Can I pile more hard work on you by rewriting your sentence above so as to reinforce the new keys that you now have in your control?

"I was born 49 years ago. I only know how Legal Crime is used by individuals today. I know how Legal Crime is used by decision makers in Legal Crime."

Consider the significance of the word changes - please.

Our government is God's law, according to you, and I can almost share all of that version of law according to you, but the words that I think I would use, at this time, is Common Law, or Natural Law, or God's Law, as our government, which is a voluntary agreement, subject to revision, but based upon the same voluntary government, avoiding deceit, threats, and violence willfully perpetrated upon the innocent.

A whole paragraph of specifics, mere words, but the intent is to be self-governing, and the intent is to avoid being subjected to false belief in lies without question.

A.
"I was born 49 years ago. I only know how socialism is used by individuals today. I know how socialism is used by decision makers in our government."

B.
"I was born 49 years ago. I only know how Legal Crime is used by individuals today. I know how Legal Crime is used by decision makers in Legal Crime."

Mere words, for your considered judgement.

Socialism is a thing, a noun?

Legal Crime is a verb?

How do those people get away with torture and murder?

They, those people, make torture and murder legal.

What is the actual problem?

Torture and murder.

Not socialism, a thing.

Not Legal Crime, a thing.

Torture and Murder made Legal, actions, perpetrated by guilty people upon innocent people.

Which version sends the more accurate, higher quality, lower cost, message through the medium of exchange that transfers the message from one sovereign individual to another, or many, sovereign individuals?

What is the goal?

To miss-communicate or to communicate accurately?

"You are asking me to replace 40 some odd years of the application of socialism by individuals in our society with the application of socialism by persons that lived almost 200 years ago named Josiah Warren and Stephen Pearl Andrews and I have a very hard time cutting the definition of current socialism and replacing it with a definition almost 200 years old."

I am not asking you to bla, bla, bla; not me.

I am pointing out, for your consideration, the very serious closed loop falsehood whereby a thing is accountable for the actions of people. How you manage to deal with that information is how you manage to deal with that information.

Victories like this are hard battles, hard won battles, and no one but you can fight them. I can't fight your battles.

All the credit for the victory goes to the victor, that is how accountability works - it seems to me.

" There are very few people who will understand anything but the current version of socialism. I think it better to use a different word. And I will probably continue to think it is better to use a different word."

It is not the word, not the thing, it is the action, it is not the noun, it is the verb.

This is fundamental and if anyone challenges you on socialism versus capitalism then consider the possibility of challenging THEM on the verb, not the noun.

I know it is not easy, and I know the nature of the beast, it is almost insurmountable, and my next quote won't appear to make the battle any easier for you, because of the name attached to the words, but this is another test, for you, and now you have the key to pass the test, or fail, on your own.

The following words contain meaning, a challenge, for you, or anyone, to challenge your own understanding of the Power Struggle between Legal Crime and Liberty.

Test yourself, it matters not to me how well, or how poorly you fare in the test, this is an offering of words, for you to consider, on your own volition.

Here is the source:

http://www.amazon.com/Anatomy-Human-Destructiveness-Erich-Fr...

The title:

The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness

If you can't find the time to read the book then you will not have as much information available to make sense of the quote:

___________________________________________
For Marx, capital and labor were not merely two economic categories. Capital for him was the manifestation of the past, of labor transformed and amassed into things; labor was the manifestation of life, of human energy applied to nature in the process of transforming it. The choice between capitalism and socialism (as he understood it) amounted to this: Who (what) was to rule over what (whom)? What is dead over what is alive, or what is alive over what is dead? (Cf. E. Fromm, 1961, 1968)
____________________________________________

You can make of those words whatever you will, because that is in your power to do so, not mine.

You will not get a thing out of it, if that is what you are looking to get out of it: a thing.

When I speak of getting a key, for example, it is illustrative, a verb, illustrative, illustrating, communicating, acting, action, moving, doing, not static, set, unmoving, fixed, and inert, and power-less.

If you please.

"I understand that Warren advocated private currency based upon the time and effort required in one’s personal labor."

I understand that that is destructively absent much in the way of understanding what Warren did advocate, since Warren's proven work has been, over time, misunderstood, and confused with a nebulous counterfeit version called "The Labor Theory of Value", and therefore it is, in my opinion, important to point out the difference between the genuine PROCESS advocated, and proven to work, by Warren, and the counterfeit THING called "The Labor Theory of Value".

Along these lines:

Genuine versus Counterfeit

1.
Competitive Money versus Counterfeit Monopoly Fraud Money

2.
Religion (Christianity for one example) versus False Religion (Inquisition for one example)

3.
Socialism as a Science versus Socialism as crime made legal

4.
Capitalism as a method of pricing versus Capitalism as crime made legal

5.
Common Law as a power employed by sovereign individuals versus Collectivist Law as a false thing used by criminals to enslave victims

6.
Equitable Commerce as a method of conducting commerce equitably versus a lie, which is a thing, called "The Labor Theory of Value"

7.
Documented ongoing Conspiracies versus a nebulous THING called "Conspiracy Theory" that exists like a boogie man lurking in the darkness of falsehood.

"I can understand and see that value in a privately sovereign individually based and issued currency."

Currency has to be understood as a connecting medium between individuals, not something used by one person alone, since one person alone has no use for "currency" outside of his, or her, own head, or outside of his, or her, own body, or outside of his, or her, own process of employing the scarce power available to produce enough power to survive in life, alone, without any other human beings contacted in any way, ever.

Currency has to be understood in the context of human interaction.

A.
Productive, honest, accurate, mutually beneficial, voluntary, agreement type currency

B.
Destructive, dishonest, false, something one gets at the cost of another, involuntary, disagreement type currency

What is the nature of the connecting medium of exchange?

"I can understand and see that value in a privately sovereign individually based and issued currency. "

What is the meaning behind the employment of the words "Private" and "Public"?

Why use two words when, supposedly, we are all supposed to be treating each other equitably, not criminally?

I could use some help with this question specifically.

When does a person stop being "private" and then the same person becomes "public"?

When does someone stop being "Employer" and become "Employee"?

When does someone stop being "Lender" and become "Borrower"?

When does someone stop being "capitalist" and become "socialist"?

Where is that line in that sand, and is it the same line each time?

What places one individual in public as the individual leaves the private condition of life, and then hopping back into the private condition, then back into the public condition, hopping, hopping, through this hoop, please consider this worthy of answering accurately?

"Perhaps their goals were Equitable Socialism as opposed to Collective Socialism."

Libraries are collectivism manifestations, things, things that exist as many individuals transfer, flowing, moving, things, currently flowing, from many places, then the flow of things, flows into one collected, collectivist, flowing, collection, of flow, as the collective sum of things flows, into the collected place called a Library.

Why is "collective" being used in a sentence as if a boogie man lurks in the darkness of "collective" things?

A bank is a "collective" thing, where individuals store individual things flowing, flowing, along mediums of exchange, flowing currently, from all the individual places, flowing along the avenues, many individual places, flowing into the one bank, collectivizing, collecting, collectivism, collections, like passing a collection plate in church, collectivizing, collections, of collectivism and within that thing lies the bogie man?

Consider the advantages of accurate currency as opposed to inaccurate currency demonstrated thusly:

Side by side comparison:

1.
Perhaps their goals were Equitable Socialism as opposed to Collective Socialism.

2.
Perhaps their goals were Equitable Commerce as opposed to Crime made Legal.

One version (1.) cannot ever be demonstrated in fact because that version of history is ambiguous, meaning that it can mean anything anytime.

The competitive version (2.) is demonstrable in fact as Equitable Commerce continues on today, in fact, in measurable fact, where it is measurably, factually, occurring today, while, at the same time, and in stark contrast, the opposite also occurs today, where Crime continues to be made Legal, in the form of what can be called by many names, such as The Dollar Hegemony, The World Reserve Currency, The Legal Money Monopoly Power, Wall Street, The Federal Reserve System of Fraud/The Federal Income Tax Extortion Racket, and U.S.A. Inc. (LLC).

"But in today’s terms, Socialism does not come with a pre qualifier."

Not so much of a victory after all?

You have the key but you don't use it?

Socialism does not decide to get out of bed, step into a suit, drive to your door, or mine, and arrive without prequalification. Which thing does so, which version of socialism does these things, exactly?

Why confuse one thing with the other?

Who benefits from that confusion?

Cui bono?

"It is just socialism that means collectivism."

So the bogie man socialism is rendered null and void, mere vapor, and now a new boogie man shows up called "collectivism"?

Is there ever an end to the current flow of things to be held accountable for the actions of people?

Old name is out, new name works?

"If one is forced into a collective situation as far as I can understand they are no longer sovereign."

No more banks?

No more batteries?

No more reservoirs?

No more useful things that can be blamed for the actions of people?

Then what? Everyone is separated from everyone else completely because every single connecting medium has been corrupted by a few people to the determinant of everyone else?

The bank did it, so no more banks?

1.
"If one is forced into a collective situation as far as I can understand they are no longer sovereign."

2.
"If one victim is willfully forced by a criminal to make the victim less powerful so as to make the criminal more powerful, as far as I can understand, the victim is no longer sovereign by that exact measure of that power being transferred that inequitable way precisely as it happens in time and place."

One sentence demonizes a thing, blaming a thing for the actions of a person, in such a way as to be so ambiguous as to be interpretable in any way anyone cares to interpret that sentence even to the point of meaning one thing one second and the opposite thing the next second.

The other sentence intends to identify an individual who acts criminally, to measure the crime precisely, and the sentence intends to identify a victim who can be measured precisely as a victim.

Sovereignty, if these words convey accurate meaning, is a power commanded by an individual, not a thing possessed, held static, like a hammer on a bench, sovereignty is the power commanded by the individual who can willfully pick up a hammer and use that hammer to accomplish a goal.

If the goal is to enslave another individual, with a hammer, or with that power of sovereignty commanded by that individual, then there is an English word for that sovereign act by that sovereign individual, and the word may be useful or not.

What is the accurate word for someone who enslaves another individual?

Tax collector?

Who benefits when criminals are called anything other than criminals?

I can guess, because I still have command of my own willful employment of my being.

"That is why you have helped me understand voluntary association. That is why each state should have its own voluntary system whereby people vote with their feet if they do not like the system. However, we do not find ourselves in that situation today. Today we are in a system whereby we are forced coercively to participate in a collective socialist system which is beholden to crony capitalism."

Still at it?

Socialism must be demonized by you, or you don't feel good about your use of time and energy, while you still have that power?

Why does capitalism get the pre-qualifier while socialism arrives without such fine print?

I am not intending to nit pick. Roughly half of the world population is polarized on one side to fight to the death the other side, for fun and profit, because of what - exactly?

Lies regurgitated in our sleep?

"Today we are in a system whereby we are forced coercively to participate in a collective socialist system which is beholden to crony capitalism. So in order to speak clearly I would say a qualifier needs to be added to the word socialism or a new word needs to be used to emancipate the truth from the error in the system currently used by criminals."

I spoke too soon?

We are on the same page on this point?

"To me it is like you telling me I don’t care what color the Republicans say they are. I say they are blue. They were blue and they are blue. I don’t care if everyone else now says they are red because they changed from blue to red. Don’t you dare call them red. They are blue. And I say When a rose changes colors it is time to take note and change words."

So that can't be rose colored glasses.

Violet colored glasses?

Roses are red, violets are blue...

"It is entertaining and fun to me and it is also work to try to apply new concepts to my thinking."

Carl Miller, if I remember right, says: "If you are not having fun, you are not doing it right."

I agree.

Fun, or no fun, this is serious business. This is as serious as working to earn a good life and having all that effort stolen and used instead for our personal misery and torturous death, so I don't know how this can be any more serious.

" I am not my own, I belong to everyone else, and this little space, this little place, I have found in writing and learning belongs to me. That may not make much sense to you, but it does to me. If that about me makes it so I am not qualified we need to know that. At the same time I need to have respect for the seriousness of the matter and the work you are about. I know it is serious. It is probably a coping mechanism for me not to think of the gravity involved; that being, the complete disregard for human life and the bodies stacked high to heaven."

In context, to me, you have worked yourself, while making the best of it, into a very important victory, as stated earlier, identification of a closed loop, in your own mind, is a huge victory, almost incomprehensibly impossible to do, alone, and if that has happened, then I am privileged to be a miniscule measure of help in that very serous battle and that very important victory.

"I can say when the cubs are involved a mama bear does come out, with claws. Maybe I just talk big."

Again, I am inspired to find those words in Solzhenitsyn's Gulag book that I don't remember verbatim, but that will have to wait.

"I guess out of respect for a request made by a friend."

We do not communicate well, it seems to me, on this point, so I can offer my standard answer to this type of situation:

Write me a script, as to what you want me to say, and then I can cut and paste those words from here to the intended forum topic.

"I never considered that I would not like what you had to say. OK never mind. I didn’t even consider how it would sound for me to ask you something like that with your own forum. I have seen people criticizing Michael and I wanted to do something to let him know that he is appreciated and that I appreciate this place in the world. I fail to look at all sides of things when I ask you to do something."

So we are simulating a conversation, this is remarkable to me.

"Maybe Bloom knows something. Maybe he doesn’t."

The messages are what they are, separate from the messenger. There is much value in the words I read from Howard Bloom so far, but there is much to contend with too. I think that my power perspective allows me to know better as to which information is productive and which information is destructive.

If Legal Criminals could, it seems to me, they would have all the females (except their close nit group) plotting to torture and murder all the males, and of course, to balance things out they would have all the males plotting to torture and murder all the females.

That scenario is ideal, it seems to me, for Legal Crime, and I think that things are done by Legal Criminals along those lines, sufficient to prove the case.

You used the term, if I remember right, man haters?

What do you think is behind the increase in homosexuality?

To me it does not matter, a female brain in a male body, I don't have anything against that individual, if that is how that individual exists, that way, without question, I don't know, it seems to be possible, very real for them, but my questions concern how does that happen, is it natural, meaning is it separate from a man-made alteration in genetics, or, on the other hand: are there things being done willfully, by people to cause those changes in genetics, done on purpose, to cause specific things to happen?

Along the same lines as Nazi's ordering forced sterilization of Jews who remained in Germany after it was clear that Jews were not going to be treated well in Germany, along those lines, what are the Legal Criminals up to now, and most people can't even ask this question if they are still assuming that "our" government is merely making mistakes when perpetual war for perpetual peace to save the children goes wrong for fully 2 centuries now.

Bloom appears to be infected with that nonsense, despite his obvious capacity to know much more about specific things than most everyone, he is a genius, one of a kind, and I have discussed my Joe's Law perspective with him on Skype. He responded to Joe's Law with "That looks right to me." or some other positive reinforcement in other words, I did not quote him verbatim.

I can say without reservation that I think that Howard Bloom is the genuine article, a genius, and he means well, and so there should be a significant amount of consideration, on my part at least, given to what he has to say.

I think that he thinks that the battle of races is natural, not man made, and I think otherwise, but the truth is obviously somewhere in between. There is a natural tendency for those who survive better to survive better, without question, but there is also an unmistakable application of man made force being used willfully in the effort to cause many people to destroy many people on purpose, for whatever "reason" those few people have motivating their actions along those specific lines, geared to reaching those specific goals.

In other words: Wars do not happen by accident, or randomly, they are driven by the deliberate willpower of specific people in flesh and blood.

I think it is very likely that Howard Bloom is a genius and a fool, look at Albert Eisenstein for example. Look at James Madison for another example.

"It looks like the Collectivists wanted some taxes which ended Modern Times. I had not seen that information before. It seems from that link that there is a doctoral student that did their thesis on Warren. It would be interesting to get a complete copy of the work?"

It looks like you believe the words typed by the reporter. Modern Times still exists in many forms, who says that it "did not grow beyond a village"?

What, exactly, did not grow beyond a village?

The report you found on the history of what Warren did, with Equitable Commerce, is designed to accomplish a goal, and the goal accomplished is to divert attention away from the facts, and to reinforce the lies that result in blind obedience to falsehood without question.

You don't see it, based upon your response to the report.

"It looks like the Collectivists wanted some taxes which ended Modern Times. I had not seen that information before. It seems from that link that there is a doctoral student that did their thesis on Warren. It would be interesting to get a complete copy of the work?"

I know this is a very long response, a huge work load, but please consider taking apart the text offered in the report on Modern Times:

"This, coupled with the labor-for-labor system, was to create a sovereign individual."

It was not labor-for-labor as in "The Labor Theory of Value", so that sentence is typically half true, failing to even touch upon the concept of TIME, or ACTION. There is no mention of the COST principle, and therefore the actual message by Warren is not simply discarded, it is falsified. Then the author claims that some THING creates a sovereign individual, which is patently absurd, because GOD creates sovereign individuals who are sovereign once they become independent beings, past the stage of growth where the being, the living being, the living human being, as a child, is nurtured by other people, parents, in a family, or if possible, but not likely the child somehow manages to become independent, and SOVEREIGN, without parents, without a family, a real family, not a counterfeit family, a good family, of good people, doing good things, like nurturing, not torturing, children.

Is that enough evidence to question the authority of the reporter reporting on the good work of Josiah Warren?

I can go on.

I still have to do some editing on this monster of a reply, and it is getting late in the morning.

"I was thinking maybe a link to your page would be in order?"

Or a link to the Worgle example of competitive currencies in that time period here:

http://www.umungu.com/scrip.htm

"I offer Romans to you in that study of society and law. I believe it is speaking of natural law...from the Word of God. God does not make puppets. People choose individually whether to submit themselves to God and allow Him to work thru them in whatever way He, the Most Sovereign High God, chooses."

Any man-made laws are counterfeit versions of natural law, or God's law, of course, I see that, but waiting around for Jesus and God to help us STOP abandoning the victims, and start separating the criminals from the victims, or at least making crime pay a little less, is probably not a good idea, so there are things that have worked such as Trial by Jury, and Common Law based upon Natural Law or God's Law.

The Articles of Confederation appeared to set a decent enough precedent with Shays's Rebellion too.

_____________________________
You said this to me:
“I think our discussion has run it's course.
I could be wrong of course.”
_____________________________

That was in reference to the possible infection of making things accountable for the actions of people, and Speer, or Common Law, is where I will be going in my thinking, so help is appreciated.

"I do not understand those words, but they hurt my feelings"

When I see words published by you, or anyone, that can be interpreted by me as meaning that a thing is held accountable for the actions of a person, then I answer that possible meaning with questions intending to get to the bottom of the confusion. That will continue, both ways, if possible.

"Before you started talking to me you had plenty of time to develop Posts. Now your information is all directed to me for other’s to read as well, but are they?"

Who knows? I don't. But my thinking is improved though these discussions, and that is my goal, I see a serious need to know better. Not knowing better is a bad road to travel.

"This is a very long reply…as if neither of us had anything better to do."

Life is precious, including, in my opinion, these discussion.




Joe

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“The base of the evil is merely evil, it is a desire to destroy, the coverings invented to hide the evil are legion, pick from the hat, any excuse will do, but specific excuses do tend to fit the occasion better than less powerful ones.”

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2825250 :

In post: Liberty Day Challenge July 4th 2013 V2

In reply to comment: Be sure to toss the bathwater (see in situ)

Speaking of dragons and counterfeits

Submitted by Josf on Thu, 11/08/2012 - 14:10. Permalink


"Are you telling me that not wanting to be around a prejudiced person is being prejudiced?"

Pre-judging or prejudice is not bad, like any tool, the concept is based upon the recognition of human limitations and human error, and an incapacity to know better, particularly not knowing what the future will bring despite a wealth of information available concerning the present and the past.

I don't know how to judge the future but by judging the past, so I prejudge the future based upon the past, knowing that I can be wrong.

Is it safe to say that prejudice can be a tool to be used for good or bad?

This is along the lines of thinking dynamically and not thinking in terms of THINGS being static, for us to use our brains, as in a verb, as in use it, not as in posses it.

Use it or lose it.

Insurance is a verb, for example, whereby there is a method by which the past and current information is used to pre-judge possible things that may happen in the future.

So prejudice, so defined, as exemplified by insurance, is one thing, and then the idea is to use your brain to compared that one THING with a counterfeit version of it, whereby the user intends to resort to deceit, threats of violence, and violence upon the targeted innocent people being targeted and then cover up those crimes with the word prejudice.

The context here is my offering of words, which are intending to convey specific, and not ambiguous, meaning. My intent is to convey a competitive perspective INTACT and to avoid having the competitive perspective misread, misunderstood, and to arrive to you NOT distorted in any way.

_________________________________
“If someone does not want to be near a prejudiced person, an evil person, then someone aught to look in the mirror first.”

Are you telling me that not wanting to be around a prejudiced person is being prejudiced?
_________________________________

I am saying the same thing as "those in glass houses should not throw rocks", or "he who is without sin cast the first stone", and the reason I am saying that has to do with a person first checking their own mind, to see if their own mind is the source of their fears, as they may then be inspired to project that lie outward from within.

If someone is pre-judging someone to be evil, based upon lies, then they are the evil ones, and such things are the things done by people whereby the result is much suffering by many innocent people, where those sets of action, so described, are called such things as collective punishment or prejudice.

Why not call it crime?

In other words: if someone is afraid of someone else, thinking that someone else will do injury to me, myself, and I, and that fear is driving a desire to lash out, deceive, threaten, or violently attack other people who merely look like the people feared, then who is casting the first stone?

This is more of the stuff of dragons we have worked on earlier.

The first stone, it turns out, is a lie, the lie enters the victims brain, and then the victim begins to employ the lie, believing that the lie is true, and then that belief in that lie inspires evil, inspires the infected person to pass on the lie to their "friends", which is evil, and deceptive, not willfully deceptive since the infected individual is by definition infected, a "true believer", and so the lie spreads, and who benefits?

Imagine spending your whole life living a lie, and on the last day, you realize it. Poor me?

How many days are left?

The original inventor of the lies, or those who know better than to actually believe the lie, and use the lie, even if they have not invented the lie, benefit, or so they calculate, as their targeted victims are at each others throats, inspired by that lie, victims growing weaker during the conflict, or the victims of the lie are separated and apart from each other, no longer benefiting from mutual benefit, whereby the lie causes either separation or conflict, both being destructive in a relative sense. The targets grow weaker either way.

If the goal of separation for all those white supremacist skin head neo-nazi's is to have nothing to do with the people they prefer not to have anything to do with, then relatively speaking there would be a loss of at least one thing worth trading between one member of one group and another member of another group. I mean to say that at least one thing that could have been mutually beneficial, if at all possible, is no longer possible, because of the separation.

Romeo and Juliet, the story, the theme, the message, is this message - it seems to me.

At the base of it, the power base, the separatists, true to their word, without lie, without prejudice, merely calculate a desire to separate, giving up on any possible benefit, because the potential cost, according to them, is too great.

A calculated cost benefit analysis, no ill will.

You or I can argue the finer points of open arms and open minds, but not while we shut our own minds to what their viewpoint is in fact.

That is far and away not the same thing as a group of people who desire connections to the objects of their hatred, so as to cause injury to innocent people.

So which is the object of your concern?

1. Genuine prejudice (cost benefit analysis)
2. Counterfeit prejudice (collective punishment/crime by any other name)

Separatists who desire to not be connected to specific people, at all, no matter what cost they themselves may have to suffer, and these same people prefer to be only connected to people they want to be connected to, for the benefits they deem to be worth seeking by those specific disconnections and connections made in that way.

In other words they are pre-judging which connections they want to make compared to which connections they do not want to make, without prejudice in the counterfeit form.

The counterfeit form of prejudice is to hate someone, then target someone, then punish someone, merely for the pre-judgment LIE that the targeted victims are Black, or Jewish, or white, or Christian, and therefore they deserve to be tortured and murdered, or even worse, the lie inspires the torture and murder of the victims "for their own good".

Which is worse?

1.
Torturing and murdering for the fun and profit of the criminals who torture an murder for fun and profit.

2.
Torturing and murdering the children to save the children who are tortured and murdered.

Lets be honest about it?

The base of the evil is merely evil, it is a desire to destroy, the coverings invented to hide the evil are legion, pick from the hat, any excuse will do, but specific excuses do tend to fit the occasion better than less powerful ones.

Which lie works this time?

Which lie works best in this situation?

I want to injure that innocent person, but that innocent person is the same color as me, so the race card lie does not work so well, but when the innocent person targeted is not the same color, then the race card lie works perfectly.

How do I know all this, you may ask, as I ask myself, and what comes to mind is the hatred I feel when thinking about evil people who lie, where they know their lies are invented to cover up their crimes, and where their crimes including the torture and murder of children on a regular basis.

I have to work to diffuse my own hatred, which can run very deep into my soul, as my mind is apt to invent any excuse that will excuse an outbreak of violence, on my part, and the excuse intends to accomplish evil, to falsify my true, base, destructive human tendencies.

I can put myself into the shoes of the legal criminals because a part of their evil is to cause their victims to be them, to join their number.

Violence begets violence, or some such wording.

"Are you telling me that not wanting to be around a prejudiced person is being prejudiced?"

Very good question?

Which prejudice do you see when you see prejudice? Do you see the genuine tool, or do you see the lie that covers up "collective punishment"?

" I am telling you that there are prejudiced people that H A T E black people and those type of prejudiced people are poison. I am saying be careful, don’t swallow their poison couched in some truth. Be sure to throw out the bathwater, Joe, and don’t let their hatred rub off on you. I am telling you that I have heard of some of that teaching before, beware, incase you come across that teaching it is not Biblical to Hate black people but there are people who twist the Bible to make it say such things. Do not believe that twist. Beware. I am not being prejudiced by not listening to hateful people. I am not giving lies value or power by not entertaining or hearing them."

I've already told you about the "religious" people who no longer knock on my door, because I let them speak, and when they speak they tell me such things as the Jews have been promised, by God, a section of Real Estate, of some notable value, and by God those squatters already living in the Promised Land had better start packing or else.

I ask or else what, torture and murder of the innocent?

They say, with a hint of relish, yes, or else, God says so.

I say or else they will be tortured and slaughtered for failing to obey the order to vacate the premises without question?

They say, it is God's will.

Really?

Promised land?

Really?

God signed the eviction notice himself?

"Be sure to throw out the bathwater, Joe, and don’t let their hatred rub off on you."

Hatred is an infection. It cripples the victim - relatively speaking.

Criminals love it.

Does that sound true?

__________________________________________
“How about the meaning of the term collective punishment?”

You mean punishing the baby and the bathwater? You mean punishment by association?
___________________________________________

The bathwater, when I employ that analogy, means the lies that cover up the violence, and the violence, and the threats, all part of the bathwater, and the baby is all that can be done by people to survive and survive better without that bathwater.

Collective punishment is the employment of a counterfeit form of prejudice, whereby criminals, with or without badges, employ prejudice to cover up their crimes as if their crimes where somehow justifiable by this tool called prejudice.

The base of crime is for the criminal to target a victim, and by whichever means the act is covered up, the set of things done to cover up those crimes are LEGION, meaning of many forms, a tangled web, an exponentially expanding universe of greater lies, more and more and more counterfeit prejudice, or "collective punishment" is just one of many coverups, false fronts, excuses, false justifications, for the actual, willful, targeting, and then injuring of innocent people.

Why call it collective punishment, when it is merely crime?

Why call it collateral damage, when it is merely crime?

What call it legal, when it is merely crime?

Why call it inflation when it is merely crime?

When dealing with the specific crime, whereby the criminals call their crimes "collective punishment", or "collateral damage", or "enhanced interrogation techniques", or "quantitative easing", the victims can know which false front is covering up which crimes.

We can share, and compare, notes, as we suffer, as we say to each other, oh yea, that is where the IRS is getting away with that much crime, and by IRS I don't mean a building, and by IRS I don't mean a title, but the specific criminals perpetrating those specific crimes do wear those badges, and they do work out of those buildings.

So...

Triage

Shin head, white supremacist, separatists, hating, but staying disconnect from, black people can be on the list of things to avoid, when trying to avoid being infected with hatred.

They don't knock on my door.

What about Ben Bernanke?

By what measure of facts can I be wary of a Randy Weaver, so that I avoid being injured by his type of hatred, compared to the very real, present, and growing account of just exactly how destructive Ben Bernanke, and his group, his set of criminals, are, to how many innocent people world wide?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Triage

Sure, I get the message, beware of people who hate other people, it might rub of on me.

I don't know that?

Do not go to the following link. The following link is for those who can bear it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2138289/posts

Do not go to this link either:

http://www.public-action.com/SkyWriter/WacoMuseum/

My hard work, my earnings, the stuff I need to survive, and survive well, to pass on to my children, the stuff I need, is stolen from me, and then that POWER I made is used to pay people who are hired to kill, and torture, and experiment on, babies, toddlers, children, teenagers, pregnant mothers, the unborn, productive adults, and even old people.

Is there room for me to become hateful after decades of constant exposure to this information that I am telling you to avoid.

The links are for those who can bear it.

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/weaver/horiuch...

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/horiuchi.htm

Ben Bernanke is a stooge, a puppet, a hired gun.

Which are those people who are responsible, and accountable, for the most egregious of crimes ever to be perpetrated by any single human being - competitively speaking?

Me?

You are warning me?

"Be sure to throw out the bathwater, Joe, and don’t let their hatred rub off on you."

Thanks. That is positive reinforcement, and my answer to you about that warning is to say that you are right, and that I had better heed that good advice further into my tour of duty, while God still has a use for me on Earth.

"He still said people should meet their obligations…I said I would agree if they were private loans. But not loans with money stolen from the people and then loaned back to the people with interest leaving the people without enough power to payfor their own way thru life."

We are all specialists, so we know our own small area of concern, and it has to be, admittedly, a very small sphere of influence. I think Jeff is way out of his league when it comes to the concept of political economy, based upon your current reports.

You may be competitive, but please consider what I am about to offer to you on this subject.

Why is it that risk is borne only by the borrower when Jeff, or you, or I, consider this concept of "private loans"?

This goes back to another unsolved mystery, something you have avoided, and hopefully we end up solving this together whereby a person is said to be "private" one minute, and then something happens, and then the same person becomes "public", and then back to "private", then "public", so what happens?

Two questions, restated below, enumerated, and offered as a possible road toward greater understanding, as the answer may answer both questions.

1.
Why are risks charged inequitably to the borrower?

2.
What constitutes the difference between "public" and "private"?

I think also, along this unsolved mystery path, as if we are both searching for a new key, a key that is currently out of view, where in the darkness there is a faint image of the answer, and the answer appears to be forming in the form of two words as such:

Without prejudice.

I know my words can sound cryptic at times, but I think this way, and the words flow easily this way. This is my specialty, my miniscule sphere of influence in a vast universe, or more than a universe, created by the creator.

Jeff can bear only so much at a time?

My wife and I get along, very well, but there are limits to what she can take of my sphere of influences.

She, for example, was on board when I turned the T.V. off for those years, but that may have been because I didn't go marching to Washington with Linda Thomson leading the charge, and me with my M1 and enough ammo in case the law breakers resist violently. They did, in fact, torture and mass murder a church full of people.

My wife was not on board with the run for congress, not against it, but to her it was along the lines of a hobby, I guess, as she thinks my typing, is a hobby too. She has demons of her own, and I can help when I can help with those battles.

Back to the discussion:

"He still said people should meet their obligations…I said I would agree if they were private loans. But not loans with money stolen from the people and then loaned back to the people with interest leaving the people without enough power to payfor their own way thru life."

So...a home mortgage loan is different from a student loan because the inequitable calculation of risk is more difficult to calculate inequitably with the student loan compared to the mortgage loan?

Who suffers in cases of default on a mortgage? The bank (people calculated to profit from the bank) takes the house and all the money paid up to the point of default.

Note: The bank employees trade equitably, their time for a wage, so they are mere workers, they do not "profit" inequitably in that sense, and the "profits" of which I speak flow somewhere, and there is a term that you may want to understand called "unearned income" which has to do with the term "usury" which is not the same thing as "interest" in a genuine sense, but the word "interest" has a counterfeit sense which is "usury".

Anyway:

How does inequitable calculation work in the case of a Student loan?

Does the Bank (the people who profit from the Central Banking Fraud) repossess the education?

Those criminal people want, demand, and get inequity, so how do they get it in the case of the Student Loan, compared to the mortgage loan as a "standard of excellence" in the "loan" shark "business"?

More on this avenue, if you can bear it, is the method of comparative measure to help know better, as a Free Market (in the genuine sense and not in the counterfeit sense) example can illustrate the point better.

A1. Counterfeit (Fraud) Mortgage Loan (not driven by competition)
A2. Counterfeit (Fraud) Student Loan (not driven by competition)
B1. Competitive Mortgage Loan driven by competition
B2. Competitive Student Loan driven by competition

That goes through my mind at once, because I am trained that way, to compare competitively those things, and a person not trained is apt to confuse all 4 things on the list as ONE THING.

Like this:

____________________________
Jeff is coming from when he says when people enter into a contract they need to keep their end of the bargain. "The Christian thing to do."
____________________________

Contracts are based upon the concept of negotiated equity, or contracts are based upon the concept of enforced scarcity.

Negotiated equity:

B1. Competitive Mortgage Loan driven by competition
B2. Competitive Student Loan driven by competition

Enforced scarcity:

A1. Counterfeit (Fraud) Mortgage Loan (not driven by competition)
A2. Counterfeit (Fraud) Student Loan (not driven by competition)

I think that I can stop here, because I will need to enter into the viewpoint the concept of "public" versus "private" and "Without Prejudice" to complete the picture, and we do not have those concepts ironed out well enough at this point.

Suffice to say that a potentially valuable student could be connected to a potentially valuable education more regularly, more abundantly, if a mechanism was in use (competition) by which investors were fighting over each other to pay the student the most money to get the students inspired to learn by that reward for that effort.

In other words: In an upside down world good people are punished most, and bad people are rewarded most, so it may be a good idea to know better as to which mechanism is tabled for discussion?

____________________________
Jeff is coming from when he says when people enter into a contract they need to keep their end of the bargain. "The Christian thing to do."
____________________________

Fraud is not a bargain, it is fraud, and just because everyone is doing it, does not make it the right thing to do, nor does it make it Christian.

My daughter just taught me a better way to make fried potatoes and she informed me that she is going to get a bank account today.

I told here that her earnings evaporate while she eats since she has invested her earnings in Federal Reserve Fraud Notes.

She nods.

I try harder.

I tell her that it looks nice, green paper, zeros, numbers, but even if she "saves" at the bank at .05 percent interest, her earnings are now evaporating at 5.05 percent interest, she "saves" herself from less loss.

She nods.

She went to Christian school, where a teacher had it in for her, teaching, by example, how the devil works by way of deceit, threats, and thankfully no violence at the Christian school.

She then went to "public" school, imagine that, through "High" school, where a teacher had it in for her, teaching, by example, how the devil works by way of deceit, threats, and a real threat of real violence, not just a counterfeit threat.

I am now reminded of the grandson being "taught" how to lie better in the debates, over in the other thread. How many ways are there to skin a cat?

"I asked him WHO is not keeping obligations: College Students of the Criminals in Government?"

So long as the "government" is knowable as a set of people sharing the same thoughts and actions, a list of those people, and the word "government" is used instead of listing all those people, without prejudice, then I get what you are saying.

On the other hand, to reinforce the understanding, the "government" can only be held accountable by liars or victims of lies, since no such thing is even remotely possible.

Which is it in this case, this time?

1.
You are holding government accountable because you know the lie and you are using it now.

2.
You are holding government accountable because you are victim to the lie, even now.

3.
You are using the word government to mean a specific set of people sharing a specific viewpoint and sharing specific actions for all those people on that list of people constituting that government specifically, without prejudice, and those people lie, cheat, steal, tortured, and mass murder for fun and profit?

I don't know, so I ask, because it is past time to figure out which people are Friends of Liberty and which people belong in that set:

This set:

"I said the government has been collecting social security from the people and promised security in retirement."

I know, you are speaking to someone who can only take so much, and so "government" can be used instead of Legal Criminals, in that sentence, at least I think I know as much, Jeff is not receptive to such naked facts, without prejudice.

I've been wrong often.

Back to competition:

1.
I said the government has been collecting social security from the people and promised security in retirement.

2.
I said the Legal Criminals have been stealing power from the victims and lied about a something for nothing benefit.

I am reminded of the time at work when a representative of the company 401K plan was speaking to the workers, while the Human Resources Employer was monitoring the event.

At that time my wife was pulling herself out of a very severe depression, another long story, and she wanted to begin her career in Real Estate, selling the land I purchased before we met, and selling my 401K plan, to buy a license, and some investment property for flipping and or renting. Not my ideas, mind you, but as it turned out I'd be up the creek without a paddle if those things were not done that way, as my health suddenly evaporated and the liars at work worked to get rid of me. All they had to do was ask.

Anyway, there I was asking for my 401K money.

The representative said you can't have it, bla, bla, bla.

I said, in front of everyone, "If I can't have it, then it isn't my money.

He said it was your money.

I said let me have it.

He said you can't have it, bla, bla, bla.

I said that it was not my money, in that case.

He said, it was my money.

I said, perhaps you don't speak English, all I'm asking for is for you to give me my money.

He said you can't have it.

I got it, minus the bla, bla, bla, of course, but that was later, since the lie of it can't be exposed "publicly" despite my efforts to do so, to FORCE the liar to admit that the lair was lying, which he would not do, and the other liar, the Human Resources liar, another well paid liar, would not confess either, not in public, only in private, he had a lot of "you can't have it, bla, bla, bla" too.

Everyone else in the room understood too. It is all a big lie, and these guys are well paid liars, and I will get my money, or it isn't my money, so what is up with the cartoon?

Who benefits?

Since then, as I've heard, those 405K plans are, well, less than the expectations were current at that time, during the up cycle of The Business Psycho.

Boom baby boom.

"Poor Jeff got an earful yesterday, and I think by the time we were done he was very surprised. I told him the worse of it is that people are thinking these thoughts because it is a complicated mess."

I know, because I test them, that my family members understand enough to question authority, and they even teach me those lessons now, in many ways.

Truth (accurate perception of measurable facts) is even more infectious than lies, for good people.

"I would suppose it would be when one does not practice the Jewish religion."

To me we are circling around a dragon.

When does a person stop being public and become private?

When does a person stop being Jewish and start being Gentile?

When is someone in the exclusive club, a member of the special ones, and when is someone cast out, and then subjected to prejudice?

Generally speaking is one thing, and being specific is another thing too.

When does a person stop being generally known and when does a person start being specifically known?

"The original words Goy and Ethnos refer to "peoples" or "nations"."

Genealogy, religious training, and now legal training?

A Jewish person is genetically connected to a specific person who was alive thousands of years ago, and a Jewish person can be a person who is specifically trained and can do things specific to that training in a specific religion, or not, and a Jewish person can be a person trained in a specific legal structure, or set of rules, or government, and do things, or be in places, specific to that jurisdiction, or not?

The person is still the person, no matter where the person goes, at any given time, and no matter what the person thinks, or does, at the time, yet the person can be Jewish, or not Jewish, at any given time, like flipping a switch where the person stands.

Jewish one second.

Not the next.

And God promised some high value Real Estate, on Earth, for those who turn the switch on?

"And then again, we are told in the New Testament not to worry about endless genealogies, because it does not matter what one’s bloodline is. What matters is what one does with Christ."

Ahhh, a breath of fresh air. Although your words could be misunderstood, by me or anyone, I trust that you mean specific moral things matter, not the size of the nose or the color of the skin.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out, but for now the owner of federal reserve notes wants to save her earnings in a bank.

Talk about cartoons.




Joe

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 01:24 am
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bear
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“Evil people will invent any lie to cover up their crimes, and the heart of evil, to me, is a failure to meet the challenge to raise the bar of quality and lower the bar of cost.”

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2824348 :


In post: Liberty Day Challenge July 4th 2013 V2

In reply to comment: Mars...You Say! (see in situ)

Baby and Bathwater again

Submitted by Josf on Thu, 11/08/2012 - 03:22. Permalink


"Do you already know about this or am I telling you something new?"

Evil people will invent any lie to cover up their crimes, and the heart of evil, to me, is a failure to meet the challenge to raise the bar of quality and lower the bar of cost.

If it works to call the competition Black while plotting evil to be done to the competition, then that works for liars.

If a person just does not want to be near a darker person, then that person aught to try using sun tan lotion.

I did not get the aversion to darker skin bug, so I like it when my skin turns darker in the sun, what is the problem with darker skin?

If a person just does not want to be near people who work to get something for nothing, then Ben Bernanke is top on the Welfare list, and he is white, so where is this prejudice thing aimed at, exactly?

If someone does not want to be near a prejudiced person, an evil person, then someone aught to look in the mirror first.

Without prejudice is a term, a pair of words in English, that may be worth knowing better.

I did not look at the links, and I prefer to stay out of those types of fights, when it looks like argument of the sake of argument, with prejudice against those who know better, than what is the point?

Prejudice.

How about the meaning of the term collective punishment?

How many ways can an evil person define the actions knowable as crime?

Who benefits when crimes are called anything but crime?

How can we, as moral human beings, accurately discriminate the difference between a person perpetrating a crime and a victim suffering from it?

Thanks for keeping the Speer information up to date, I've been running out of time of late, barely finding time to play the guitar, and my political/economy work has been focusing on Carl Miller, as I'm making a reading list.

The key that opened this Bonding/Common Law door is proving to be a very well lit up room, with many things to see, and know about, better.

https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/US/5/5.US.137.html

I want to get back to Speer too.

I did read the history lesson on the migration of people from Israel, and perhaps you can help me with a question on the concept of race.

Are the Jewish people considered a race or are the Jewish people considered a group of people who share a specific form of religion?

How do you know that Speer was speaking about Jews?

When does a person stop being a Jew and start being a Gentile?

I know that a person may be born with darker skin, so they are darker skin because of their genetic make up, a race if you will, a genetic make-up that is specific to a set of human characteristics.

I don't normally spend much time on this subject; hence my ignorance about someone who is called a Jew, or people who calls themselves Jews.

I have a pretty big nose, so perhaps I am Jewish?

I don't get it.

I don't like to consume more than I earn, does that make me Jewish?

My parents, one or the other I don't know, decided to have my hose cut off at the end, for some strange reason, so does that make me Jewish?

Meanwhile the Legal Criminals are conducting World War III, as if by accident.

How much of the whole Jewish thing is bathwater?

How much of it is prejudice made legal?




Joe

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bear
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"The Nazi Political POWER (including a crushing monopoly money POWER) is no more Christian than the Zionist Political POWER (including a crushing monopoly money POWER) is Jewish."

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2829436 :


In post: Liberty Day Challenge July 4th 2013 V2

In reply to comment: How many times must one pass Go (see in situ)

Deep rooted self-destruction

Submitted by Josf on Sun, 11/11/2012 - 10:01. Permalink


Insurance defined according to a source:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/insurance

2
: a means of guaranteeing protection or safety

Means, a word, BEING DEFINED according to an authoritative source that DEFINES the word "means":

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&pq=insura...

meansplural of means (Noun)
Noun:

An action or system by which a result is brought about.
Money; financial resources.

Bear,

I do not prop myself up as the authority (inert/static) of anything other than the messages that I THINK (action/dynamic) I know (action) currently (action/dynamic) because that is the limit of my POWER (action/dynamic) and even if I could FORCE (action/dynamic) you to THINK (action/dynamic) the say way, by dictating (action/dynamic) those THINGS (inert/static) into your being (action/dynamic) I would not do so because the value (action/dynamic) of having two competitive viewpoints would be lost if I had the POWER (action/dynamic) to FORCE (action/dynamic) you or anyone to THINK (action/dynamic) the same way as I think.

Why would anyone ever spend their time and energy (POWER) forcing other people to think ONE way, which is, by definition, the one way that the individual doing the forcing is thinking?

Cui Bono?

Insurance is a verb.

Take out the word insurance and take out the word verb and in place of those words put in the definitions I found (not mine, they are borrowed from someone else, not my OWN definitions) and then see the sentence constructed in that specific way as follows:

An action or system guaranteeing protection or safety.

What is an action guaranteeing protection or safety, if those actions can be conveyed as one THING without having to list all the actions one at a time?

Insurance.

How about THE LIST of all the actions required to be acted out in order for an action or system guaranteeing protection or safety to happen in real time, not in theory, but actually happening in a dynamic sense of human life concurring in time and space?

You could play a part in my narrative with John and Jane at the Equitablist Bank where Product 1 and Product 2 are sold.

Speaking of which (equitablist) I wonder if that word has gained currency according to the Google measure of currency and if you remember that word you invented did not exist by that same Google measure of currency. You created a new word in English, or at least you are one among hundreds of millions of people who may have created that word, if anyone other than you had also created that word.

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=equitabl...

About 279 results (0.25 seconds)

I had another idea, concerning my book project, which would be a book written and printed as a collection of our discussion, which is something I would not do without your permission, or further help.

There are more than a few ways to publish and sell books.

Here is one good link on publishing books:

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2012/01/self-publishing-your-ow...

Back to the discussion:

"Use it or lose it, you say: I do not naturally think in opposites. I suppose my thinking is pretty much one-dimensional."

Think about it more, you may invent new and improved ways to think about it more, and you can even test your progress as time goes by in a dynamic sense.

This is a dragon you are fighting and that dragon is hinted at in the quote published by Erich Fromm on Carl Marx - if you have forgotten it I can re-publish it here.

No, no need to foam at the mouth, I do not support Bolshevism, but "we" did through Wall Street and the money monopoly POWER, so don't blame me - please.

"Therefore if thine enemy hunger , feed him; if he thirst , give him drink : for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head."

I read that as: Allow the power of creation (God) to work on everything naturally, do not yourself prop yourself up as creator of life, falsely, by propping yourself up as destroyer of life.

or

Do not become that which you supposedly abhor, because if you do, then you are what you supposedly abhor.

Not to be confused with actions in self defense when natural self defense takes over when all other options (due diligence) are no longer available because some abhorrent criminal aggressively attacks you, or someone else, leaving no options left but self-defensive actions, and even then, as I have offered to you, why can't you have a device that can immobilize, without harming (other than relatively harming them in the sense that they don't get to murder and torture someone, which to them is a loss of their valuable time and energy) anyone.

or

Do No Harm (including do not abandon victims to be tortured and murdered by criminals)

What is insurance?

An action or system guaranteeing protection or safety.

What is Trial by Jury, the real thing, when it actually worked as intended, and crime was minimized, and punishments were typically simple fines charged to those found guilty of the few remaining crimes.

An action or system guaranteeing protection or safety.

What happens if crime doesn't pay so well per torture and murder victim, or per hour, or quota, or a percentage commission, etc.?

What happens when the victims are led to believe that "providing the means by which we suffer" is an action or system guaranteeing protection or safety?

What happens if the best game in town, the highest paying job, is Legal Fraud, Legal Extortion, and all the Legal Torture and Mass Murder required to keep that game going?

Stay tuned?

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Coming to a Theater Near you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkwjtbTjTsE

"Saying the nation of Israel will only be restored by Messiah and that the humanly done Zionism is not according to God’s will."

All a skeptic would need to do, it seems to me, is spend some time in the new Concentration Camps in Palastine to then remove their skepticism concerning the truth of those words published in that lats quote:

"Saying the nation of Israel will only be restored by Messiah and that the humanly done Zionism is not according to God’s will."

Zionism equates to Naziism.

The Nazi Political POWER (including a crushing monopoly money POWER) is no more Christian than the Zionist Political POWER (including a crushing monopoly money POWER) is Jewish.

The Republocrat Political POWER (including The FED/IRS money POWER) in America, and imported to "Third World" countries, is no more Spiritual than legal torture and legal murder upon children save those tortured and murdered children from death by torture or death by murder.

Lies are lies, that is what they are, and the liars don't, by definition, believe them, but a "true believer" in lies, by definition, is a sick person who is infected with falsehood, stuck in a closed loop, supporting a FALSE GOD: a lie.

" I don’t understand the current dynamics between Israel and the Palestinians."

You may not want to dig too deep, there are many very sad things to witness on that path, very sad things, very destructive, demoralizing, evil things to witness, very, very, very, bad.

This one is not so bad, compared to what is being done to babies, toddlers, children, expectant mothers, but this link I will ask you to look at, is bad enough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfRxHPOxdM4&feature=rellist&p...

I've told you the routine, it is not new, I found an example of the routine, the same routine, in an old book titled The Lost State of Franklin, where Legal Criminals solve the "Indian Problem", with the same "Final Solution", as they hire very evil people to dress up as "Indians", to slaughter Settlers, babies, pregnant mothers, toddlers, the more evil the better, and then blame the "Indians", so as to spread hatred into the Settlers, so as to justify slaughtering the "Indians", who happen to be occupying "The Promised Land", which is rich land, good land, abundant land, but occupied by that "problem" which is the same routine problem, over, and over, and over, and over again, where there are PEOPLE, already on that "Promised Land" that Legal Criminals promise themselves for their own exploitation USING their duped subjects that are subjected to the lies, threats, and violence of those same Legal Criminals doing the same old things, that work time and again, over, and over, and over, again, and again, like a broken record, or like a Business Psycho.

Ron Paul does not try to explain, in detail, the Business Cycle, but he does communicate the vital need to understand it.

Do I understand it?

I think I do, in a competitive, dynamic sense, and it is more than "just" about money, but money is the connecting medium, so take that power back from them, Friends of Liberty taking back the power of their own, honest, accurate, productive, POWERFUL, money, from the criminals, the psychopaths, the sociopaths, the immoral evil non-human beings, the pathological liars, and even the "true believers", the minions, the subjects, take back the power of honest, accurate, communication, and the Legal Crime power is rendered power-less.

Legal Crime cannot, then, pay so well: not without Monopoly Fraud Non-Money POWER working the way it works in a dynamic sense.

"There was a war in 1967 where a lot of nations came against Israel and Israel won and won ground."

"Nations" do not act. People moved POWER, in the form of money, in the form of promises to make more money, so as to cause a War to happen, and why do you think those PEOPLE willfully did those things, those actions, to cause that, or any, war to happen?

You are led to believe that Zionists, the actual PEOPLE, the people running the criminal government, were not provoking the war, deliberately, that "Israel", a thing, was innocent, defenseless, attacked by bad guys, and "Israel", a thing, had to defend itself from the bad guys, and had no other options at all. That is a familiar story.

The familiar story is that the aggressor seeking to gain land, promised to themselves, creates a false flag event, where the aggressors dress up as their victims, they slaughter people, such as the people on the U.S.S. Liberty, blame that on their victims, so as to "justify" the taking of "The Promised Land" from the native population who are already existing on that "Promised Land".

It can get complicated, of course, and so then you need to have an official member of the defending nation to explain the justifications for these things, of course, and what happens, in the unfortunate event, when the targeted victims win?

There are examples of cases where the targeted victims win, instead of the aggressors winning, and then history is written by the targeted victims, not the aggressive war for profiteers.

Look up stuff written by Patrick Henry for an example of what happens when The Business Psycho skips a beat.

What does the time between 1776 and 1788, in America, exemplify to anyone caring to know better?

If the good guys won the 6 day war, as History tells "us", then how does anyone explain the current Ghettos, the current Concentration Camps, the current "State of Affairs" in the West Bank, Gaza, and the Golan Heights?

Places with people already occupying the land promised to who by who?

Cui Bono?

Do you know about Islamic Finance?

"The point is getting across. Jeff doesn’t skip out on rent."

By what measure?

The World Reserve Currency POWER, having been a huge criminal process of taking power from other people and having that power benefit those people who FINANCE that power, is "skipping out on rent" and the records can show that without any room for doubt, all meticulously recording in documented fact.

A victim of this big lie, this Dollar Hegemony, the new Caesar, with "that which is Caesar's", moves power inequitably from the victims to the criminals.

How can anyone connected through The Dollar Hegemony claim not to be a part of the crime in progress?

In a relative sense, and I can illustrate this sense better, more accurately, those who "own" or "control" the Monopoly Power benefit by having that control.

The Criminals who co-op the home field subjects into cooperating do so by "spreading the wealth" during the BOOM part of the Business Psycho, and during that time, in that sense, those who benefit are skipping out on the rent, or, in other words, getting something for nothing, and in other words receiving stolen goods, and in other words getting a piece of the action, and in other words aiding and abetting criminals, and in other words profiting from aggressive wars for profit, and in other words evil.

Not acknowledging the facts is not the same thing as not being a part of the crimes in question.

Acknowledging the facts could turn someone around and instead of ignorantly supporting those crimes, with material support in the form of earnings (surplus wealth or Power to Purchase), the person acknowledges that support flowing in that way, and instead of doing nothing to stop that power flowing that way, the then aware person, having acknowledged the facts, can begin to work to stop supporting those crimes in those ways.

Like this:

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

It is not theory. It is power flowing from ignorant people who are made to work harder and harder and have more and more of their power stolen and then having that stolen power used to steal more power from them.

The end result is war:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Progress toward war is carefully monitored, well documented, FACT.

Stop paying into it and what happens?

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

Did that ever happen, where people stopped paying into it, and then what happens when people stop paying into it, happens?

There is a time period between 1776 and 1788, in America, that illustrates what can happen when people stop paying into it, and stuff happens, and if it can happen that way, it can happen that way again, and if actual people can learn from the mistakes recorded by people in the past, then people today can, if they learn from those mistakes, the people today can avoid making those same mistakes again.

Why is that not easy to see?

"Jeff doesn’t skip out on rent."

When China has the World Reserve Currency POWER, no longer U.S.A. Inc. (LLC), then Jeff won't be living in the place where the good end of the stick is, in FACT, and instead of receiving those benefits of having the good end of the stick here, we here, will be prodded with the stinky end of that stick, paying war debts, not spending war profits.

If that is not easy to see, for anyone else, so be it, and I can be wrong, but those are well documented facts, to be known, or not known, simple math, simple stuff, easy to know stuff, a third grader can know this stuff, so what is the problem?

"Jeff doesn’t skip out on rent."

In a specific sense, so far, Jeff doesn't skip out on rent, a factual statement, so far.

Jeff is powerful enough to be in that fortunate position so far.

I suppose.

I see a different picture, and I can ask if Jeff ever borrowed any money from Caesar, the modern version of the money changers, and if Jeff ever worked, earned, and then use that earned power to purchase to pick up a thing Made in China.

If that exchange, documented fact, could be known, precisely, exactly, each step of the way, if such an understanding, precise, accurate, knowledgeable, the entire transaction, could be accountable as an inequitable transaction, whereby Jeff "made a killing" at the expense of another person living in China, perhaps a person his same age, but a person who, for now, is on the wrong end of the Legal Money Monopoly World Reserve Currency POWER stick.

What is rent?

It is exactly what Caesar says it is today and it can be exactly what Caesar says it is tomorrow, and tomorrow it might be opposite what it is today.

"Jeff doesn’t skip out on rent."

Words spoken during well earned good life, not necessarily a challenge of principles, and far from judgment day at the end of a human life in living form, sure, I get that, but we two are hunting dragons, and so for my part I am working an angle that has to do with false connections that we all might want to disconnect, if we can figure out ways to do so, without harming anyone.

The concept of rent may not mean the same thing from one individual to another - a point of contention?

"The mind is open to brainwashing during entertainment…so I have heard."

And if the loop closes, if the lie infects the individual, the dragon is inside, the Trojan horse is inside, and almost all hope may be lost at that point, because the individual may have to depend upon something outside, for help, in defeating that dragon, exposing the closed loop, and returning POWER to know better back to the individual.

The capacity for self-doubt, may be a required power, if the idea is to have the capacity to know better?

Action, on the other hand, requires a willful effort to apply power in a specific direction, so there has to be a balance between self-doubt, and determined effort.

This is way too long already, but a few things may need to be cleared up.

The T.V. was only off for a few, or 5, I can't remember, years, and then it has returned with mixed reviews.

My wife watches shows that I cannot stand, such as Dr. Phil. I end up watching some things, I can't stand, just to spend some time with my wife.

"How is it working for you?"

That is a question asked by Dr. Phil.

"The mind is open to brainwashing during entertainment…so I have heard."

If a lie takes hold, then willful action is external to the individual who is infected?

Note: Law documents record a human effort to discriminate accurately between premeditate crime and "crimes of passion".

What about the power of lies, who is responsible?

The liar is responsible for the lie.

The believer in the lie (not the liar, since the liar knows it is a lie) is responsible for whatever the "true believer" in the lie, does, as an individual, no different than a wild animal, lacking human reason, human conscience, human moral judgment, or "Common Sense", so not coincidentally, much human effort, including human spirituality, is focuses on accurate identification of facts so as to avoid injury by falsehood.

What happens when the Law, which must be an effort to accurately discriminate fact from fiction, becomes fiction?

Legal Fiction?

U.S.A. Inc. (LLC) (1788 to 2012)

A Responsible Entity?

False God?

"We have already spoken about how many times someone has to pay for their house before it actually belongs to them…she had already paid for her house as far as I can tell."

You may not have thought about all that mortgage loan stuff as much as I have, I've been closely associated with the Real Estate business now for almost a decade, and my Product 1 and Product 2 idea illustrates, through those devices, my current understanding, which is comprehensive.

That is the point of the challenge being offered to you, where you play the part of a customer, and then you play the part of a saleswomen, in a play acting, text version, of a Product 1 and Product 2 sale event, at a new Legal Bank where equitablists have taken over America.

If you have not read one of my sales pitch illustrations then you can read the one started in this thread between a fictitious John the customer, and Jane the salesperson.

The idea is to covey what I have learned up to this date, and to do so intact, without any miscommunication, and the idea further involves a promise of improvement as my own limited perspective can be sharpened by competitive, side by side, compassion with your perspective, as you play act either side in the Chess Match constructed in that way, where two people work out a banking transaction at a Legal Equitablist Bank.

"So Joe, the way I am seeing this is that you have been handing me puzzle pieces and I am finally able to identify them and put some together, but somehow, there is a foundation that I fail to apply those pieces upon…like competition...more more recently holding "things" responsible. I think I even wrote about competition in my gushing thank you :) But somehow I have all of these truths but am not using them together."

OK, my view on that, well, life is short, and you can't expect to make short cuts, and you are not a teenager with teenager capacity to learn new things, and life is short, and you have responsibilities of parenting, very high priority stuff, so forget about reaching ahead to far, all at once, and in my opinion you can step back, see how the new keys work, apply the Boyd strategy to many things, for example, Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act, and digest, and process, and above all, it seems to me, maintain that balance, that "pursuit of happiness", in this "animated contest of freedom", while it exists as it exists, and to me, what you will find, is improvement, because you find ways to improve, and you no longer settle for less, even if external things are overwhelming, at the very least you find how to slow down the injury, which is a relative improvement, and YOU control that which is in your power to control, because you are now, at least, taking on those responsibilities, those responses that you are able to act out in fact.

The "big picture" is built up over time as all the little pictures work out, over and over, again and again, in similar ways, this lie, you see, does that, you see, and this fact, you see, works this way, you see, and I'm telling you, it becomes very simple over time, you begin to see patterns, like learning how music works, you begin to see, oh yea, that works that way, and you see, as I now seeing, with your help, that this "big picture" stuff is all well documented in scripture, it is the same stuff, lies are bad, OK, common sense stuff, liars injure people, Wow!, who would have thought such things!, on and on.

Other people are infected, they need help, your initial response may be to defend against them, but that does not help anyone, so what happens, you learn?

You know better?

Of course today you don't know better, compared to tomorrow, God willing.

My mother is losing her capacity to know better, and we have a very Spiritually connected cousin, my wife's side of the family, who is almost, but not yet, a victim of cancer, and the stark comparison of how the person with a safe place is handling the end of life compared to the person who has no save place.

I think you know what I mean.

We are still here.

Knowing better is probably a good idea compared to settling for abject belief in falsehood without question.

One path goes one way, and the other path goes the opposite way.

What inspires a person to choose one way over the other way?

You have your spiritual base of operations.

I have my power perspective.

I am able to know better because your spiritual base of operations reinforces my power perspective in many ways right now, and I may learn of many more ways in the future, ways that are still hidden from me right now.

So...discussion is a two way, equitable, street, or path.

Is it parallel?

"I know those payday loan places are fraudulent. But if I go there and I agree to something, shouldn’t I follow thru with what I agreed to? Isn’t that my word? Would it be deceit to agree and then renege?"

The rules that are enforced are specific, not ambiguous, and not subject to negotiation in case of default.

What if you return to the lender and you subtract the loss you suffer due to inflation?

What if the lender sells the loan but does not maintain legal chain of title and the new owner of the loan is no longer a legal owner of the loan according to the contract rules that are enforced?

What if a competitor was allowed to offer you a loan at less cost to you?

What if a competitor was allowed to pay you to borrow money because your use of the money was worth the risk according to the competitor since the competitor benefits indirectly by your industrious use of the power to purchase loaned to you?

When you question the right of you doing the right thing among the thieves who construct these ongoing crimes made legal, that is what you do, but my point is to point out how things WILL work if you avoid the criminals completely.

There are, also, to be considered, three groups, not just two, as follows:

1.
Willful criminals who know that the lies they employ are lies.

2.
Victims of lies that don't know that the lies they are victim to are lies.

3.
Equitablists, or Friends of Liberty, and God's Children, and whoever else, who are moral people, who do not use, and who are not subject to, lies, threats, and violence as a means of gaining power from the targeted, and innocent, victims.

I'm not saying everyone is either/or 1,2,3, and nothing else, I'm saying that two goals, generally, are accomplished by people as they step into those roles listed above:

1. Productive and Life Sustaining
Use scarce power to make power abundant

2. Destructive and Life Ending
Use scarce power to take power from other people and use the stolen power to steal more

If you premeditatingly employ, or employ as a "true believer" in lies, (1 and 2) crime (lies, threats, violence upon the innocent), if you are a criminal in FACT, then you destroy life, in FACT, and there are easy, accurate, undeniable, methods by which those FACTS can be measured, as the bodies pile up, for one example.

If you do not resort to crime, what happens?

Two other points:

1.
Do not abandon victims to be further victimized by criminals.

2.
Do not punish innocent people because that is, in fACT, crime.

So, yea, things are complicated, the Big Picture is elusive, and there are a whole lot of people who are either willfully perpetrating crimes or are following criminal orders without question, and there has to be, mathematically, a whole lot more victims than there are criminals, since someone actually does have to produce something worth stealing or there isn't anything worth stealing for those criminals who choose that path.

"I find that Jeff doesn’t want to hear what I have to say or maybe cannot bear it and then it seems shortly thereafter he is talking about it or bringing up concepts as I talk about something else."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs+8&versi...

"Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not."

To me those words in Proverbs 8 are instructions. The messenger is irrelevant, to me, what are the instructions, and if the instructions are followed, what happens?

"They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge."

To me that means that people WILL figure it out, it is the way we are built, it is the way we are created, we are created with the capacity to know better, so there is hope in that, get on that path, follow that instruction, and what happens along that way will happen.

Take a wrong turn, figure it out, stop digging the hole that goes to hell.

Stop providing the means by which we suffer, and I didn't say that, exactly, I'm just another messenger boy.

Author:

http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/sense2.htm

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."

Perhaps, even that is not the best instruction available, since government can be, if people make it, voluntary, and not a lesser evil at all.

I don't know, but I think it is worth finding out if it can be made true in FACT.

"The difficult thing is that the lies have been going on for so long it is hard to know what is true anymore."

I think the instruction in Proverbs 8 says "Start looking".

It does not say: "This is easy."

I say this is easy sometimes. I'm often wrong.

"The reason Christians and Jews do things is to be because of heart that loves God."

The genuine Christians and Jews, not the counterfeit versions?

1.
Willful criminals

2.
Dupes who are misdirected and fooled into being criminals while they think they are doing good things.

3.
Those who know that deceit, threats, and violence employed to gain at the expense of innocent victims is wrong, not right, and therefore to be avoided, at least, and at best DO NOT abandon innocent victims and DO NOT punish innocent people, or, at best, do no harm, by willful action, or by willful inaction?

I get these wild ideas sometimes, like having a set of cards handy, and on these cards are blown up graphic pictures of innocent people being tortured and murdered, in your face stuff, so that anyone who begins to challenge my viewpoint, when entering a political economy type discussion, they begin to challenge may authority, "where I am coming from", I have those signs ready.

Sure, I can say, I may be blowing thing out of all proportion.

I may be raising my voice.

I may be getting all worked up over nothing.

Sure, I get that, sure, but what about this, and this, and this, and this, and might it be a good idea for someone to give a damn once in a long while, someone who isn't going to be fooled into thinking that those people in those pictures deserved to be tortured by you and by me as we financed those horrible and torturous deaths, huh, so long as we are all up on our high horses of pretentious authority and all?

OH, Joe, just calm down, we all know you have issues, and you have concerns, and bla, bla, bla, but...

But, you know Joe, the Mexicans are stealing our Jobs, and you know, those Terrorists have to be fought over there so we don't have to fight them over here, and you know, Joe, war is good for the economy after all, and those Democrats are Socialists, and everyone has to do their fair share with these Tax Liabilities, except us, of course, but don't get caught, of course.

I'm fed up.

I exude such a thing as being fed up.

Decades as the guy who aught to be avoided, the guy with "issues".

"Oh, you are one of THOSE guys!"

So, yea, it isn't easy.

"Why does someone have to pay for a real estate license?"

Union dues.

It is a form of insurance, or bonding, but the idea isn't to nurture competition, the idea is to create an insurance policy against competition.

The money goes to finance our own suffering, it fits the pattern, and eventually you will be able to recognize the patterns easily.

Getting someone else to see it, well, I've been at it for decades, and you exemplify the full measure of my successes, such as is IS to date.

I can be wrong, of course, but the bodies are piling up, as we type, and the money trail has us in the loop - without prejudice.




Joe

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"lf by "government" the user of the word means "them" and not "us" then how can it be "our" government?"

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2821837 :

In post: Help My Grandson in His Debate Anyone?

In reply to comment: But the Battle Has Begun Josef (see in situ)

Sypathetic but not empathetic

Submitted by Josf on Wed, 11/07/2012 - 04:32. Permalink

"I would like to throw out that while I understand what you are saying and agree that "that" is part of the problem, our discussion would be greatly enhanced by returning to the point of my post so I know if we are on the same page because it began out of interest in and love for a grandchild who is growing in grace and truth."

In order to set the stage up for my answer I think it may be a good idea to define what I mean by my sympathy applied to the young person in question. I had a father who would be physically ill when he observed other people who were ill and I call that empathy, and I call that empathy only because I need a stronger word than sympathy, because I am not like may father was, I am only capable of imagining what someone else is feeling, I don't myself feel bad when someone else is feeling bad.

I am sympathetic concerning your grandchild, because I apply my thinking along those lines. I do so willfully, and with great interest. I cannot be emphatic, so defined.

I participated in very few public speaking events and as a child, having been uprooted enough times to become very shy, or other things occurring whereby a fear grew in me of contact with many people who may have their attention aimed at me, and those fears I can say, without reservation, can be crippling to someone who may have information that is worth communicating.

Avoiding crippling things may be a good idea.

The messenger can be shot before the message is delivered.

In that context, or along those lines, I began responding to this Topic.

I can also add that my fears of public speaking were overcome, to a large degree, during the limited time of my name being on the National Congressional Election Ballot in 1996.

I spoke to the voters assembled on a few occasions, and I did so without stumbling over my words, and afterwards there were some occasions whereby people shook my hand and thanked me for having made the effort.

I heard: "I agree with what you are saying but..."

http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/past/1996/primary/cand/cand_k.htm

I was the Libertarian voice during one official Congressional debate. I went alone to it, at my own expense. The incumbent did not attend, at my expense too.

It amazes me, as you may never know, that I "ran for congress", in part because of Ron Paul's example. That was the past me, and I can be sympathetic there too. Past me, is not the current me. I've slayed many dragons since.

For the most part, because of Waco.

I ran on the "it isn't nice to torture and murder church goers" campaign.

I did not mince words, I did not play the games, I did not blame THINGS for the actions of people, and I did not lose the election (it was stolen, they are all stolen with few exceptions). The same things happening at that election effort on my part occur today, in my personal life, as just recently I showed up, going past the Rapiscan scanners, at the court house entrance, to "Jury Duty". Being herded into a room, past the bar. During "interviews" I spoke to the assembled people, a rare thing for me, and I did not mince words, I did not play the games, I did not share the lies, accurate perception was not in demand there either, not in an official capacity.

My versions of communications, factual, without the lies, is not in demand even today - as measured mathematically.

If your grandchild does not acknowledge the significance of the lie whereby people share the lie, whereby THINGS are held accountable for the actions of people, then to me, that is a very poor, weak, and powerless position to be in, and I can sympathize.

That is the context of my message.

My point of mentioning the often resort to exile does not apply to you, as you are among the few exceptions. I do not speak personally, in public, often, but I have been writing, in public, almost every day, for decades.

I don't know who the remnant are, I can't, but I know that we exist, if by remnant I can refer to an author named Albert J. Nock, in reference to those who refuse to "join'em" because we won't claim that we can't "beat'em", or some other shared lie - perhaps many of us are the silent remnant, not yet ready to stick our necks out very far, not willing to be counted so overtly, in public, for various reasons, not just for fear, or even concern, or self-preservation.

If we can't have fun, a balance, there is no point in waking up in the morning - it seems to me.

I don't know.

Your grandchild may be setting a fine example, if it does not get too hot, and if he does not wither, and if he does not become, like the pod people, one of them; I mean, without any ambiguity, one of those people who share the lie that THINGS are accountable for the actions of people.

"There are a growing number of children, my grandson being one, who are being educated outside the propaganda machine."

The propaganda machine, a case in point, includes all the spaces between all the ears, and I know my parents were infected, one still is infected, the lies run very deep.

Without prejudice is a very interesting term, a new one on me, worth understanding - it seems to me - and possibly connected intimately to this line of thinking: making THINGS accountable for the actions of people = prejudice.

"These children and many of their parents are just beginning with issues like "foreign aid" and realizing the lies, as you say, contained therein."

Principle lies are like bases of operations, like Central Banks, where the ancillary sat-elites grow (exponentially) from the root, like weeds, perhaps, persist, or like ants persisting, until sugar and boric acid employs the army to deliver the solution to the queen - if you know what I mean.

I think you do.

"However, I just want to be sure that you understand we are talking 13 and 14 year olds."

We (my wife and I) are blessed with a son who is 23, and a daughter who is 18. After Waco I forbid the television for about 5 years, and that may have been a significant unintended consequence of that abuse of collected power by those people who had obvious goals in mind. My 13 and 14 year old's were teaching me, in those years, as much, or more, than I was teaching them, but some lies are very persistent, and require constant vigilance. I hope my own children can measure up to your grandchild's standard where the bar is being set very high.

All things are relative.

"The kids are digging up the information and discussing it among themselves."

If all the information is couched in the language whereby the lie of making THINGS accountable for the actions of people, which so far that appears to be the truth, unfortunately, then it is WIN/WIN for the Legal Criminals, and that remains to be my POINT that I think aught to be acknowledged.

Due diligence.

"Yes, a debate will take place; however, they have pretty much resolved the conclusion."

Respectfully, I disagree, if the making of THINGS accountable for the deeds of people remains intact, then the Trojan Horse is in the gate, and the virus will consume everything soon enough, and I may be a nutcase after all, but that is how I see it, again, due diligence, so long as I have thrown my hat in this ring.

I was born in 1958, thank God, mom and dad, and I walk the EARTH!

"My grandson knew very little about the Constitution several months ago and yet, through the internet, had many questions about the way our government operates and he had a growing suspicion that much of the news was lies."

I can't know, but the words used in that sentence above could indicate a manifestation of the lie, since the counterfeit version looks so much like the genuine article, as designed.

Government is not a THING to be held accountable for the actions of people unless the true believers (in the lie) do.

VERBS: "our government operates".

The genuine article, and not the counterfeit version, is a convenience, a use of language whereby the speaker does not list all the names of all the people who share the thoughts and actions specific to the SET of people being referenced with the word "government".

If the speaker is employing the genuine truth of the matter, whereby "our government operates" then there is a list of names that constitute "our government".

If everyone is not on the list, then how can it be "our" government?

I do not torture.

I do not mass murder.

Who does?

The power I earn is stolen from me, and that power is used to kill my friends IN Liberty, my power is used, after it is stolen from me, to torture my friends IN Liberty.

If that is not due diligence, say so, and I'll get the picture.

How does our government work?

Are you infected?

Is your grandson infected?

I don't know. But I have an interest in knowing, because, as stated, failure to reach back to the roots of the infection is a set-up for failure in this adventure, this animated contest of freedom, yes, or no?

1.
Failing to acknowledge the fact that I still, during weak moments, think in terms of holding THINGS accountable for actions done by people, is very bad for me, as that weakness lends way too much moral, and then eventually material, support to very bad people.

2.
Nevermind, nothing worth noting here, insignificant stuff, and irrelevant.

I can sympathize. My children teach me, if I listen.

" What he did not have was a forum...a place to discuss with his peers. His parents weren't as informed as they should have been. He felt like he was in exile like you said about yourself, in that he did not have a place to discuss his thoughts with peers...where he wouldn't be treated as just a kid by adults that he wasn't so sure knew as much as they thought they knew. His parents are also listening and growing, thinking and learning. They are also learning to respect their sons' thoughts and listen and encourage him.."

So...having a particularly destructive dragon in sight, if it exists, and I can't know, will it be slayed or not?

1.
Language is being used to convey a known SET of people contained in the word "government", which is ours, and those people do this, and those people do that, so those people, in that SET, are accountable, responsible, because THINGS are not responsible, and THINGS are not accountable, such as "government".

2.
Government did it.

Which is it, in any case?

"My point is that while perhaps imperfect to you...this is all a very good thing."

Is the imperfection all there is to consider in my mind?

I don't think so. I can sympathize, and I can offer a word of advice.

Slay that dragon if it exists in your mind, please. I think you may eventually see the significance of my concern, sharing it, if you will.

Or not, I can't know, you may be employing language in a way that intends to convey a SET of people called "government" where by the people sharing those thoughts and actions are people on that list, where it is too much work to list all the names on the list, and you are not infected with the lie - at all - more power to you.

I don't know.

I think it is worth the effort to find out.

It was for me.

It still is.

"They are moving in the right direction. I don't think there are any lies in the approach or their conclusions."

Tests are easy enough to invent. A badge or license is not a requirement to find out the facts.

If by "government" the user of the word means "them" and not "us" then how can it be "our" government?

In context (abundant examples):

Fill in the blank.

I am merely delivering the message. What you do with the message is out of my power. I prefer good things.

"I am certain they are all aware that there are individuals within those groups we call government, corporation, lobbyist, elitists that are responsible for the immoral decisions and the lies."

"They" constitute "our" government?

I have to question myself, sure, as I step outside my being, figuratively speaking, and look at me being an ass about this, and I see a nutcase too often.

Why?

This is not insignificant.

The bodies continue to pile up.

It is only insignificant because it isn't on the kitchen table yet.

So, yes, I'm the bad messenger boy.

Who is responsible?

They are?

"I am certain they are all aware that there are individuals within those groups we call government, corporation, lobbyist, elitists that are responsible for the immoral decisions and the lies."

I'm a creep too, sure, I get that too, and I may be stepping over the line of decorum. Sure, I get that. I spoil the fun, plopping tortured bodies onto every kitchen table, figuratively, party pooper.

Here comes the torture and mass murder guy. Bodies all over me, 8 by 10 glossies, arms, legs, severed heads.

Commingled masses, all burnt.

No heads.

It, not ambiguously it, but specifically it, the dragon of which I speak, is in the headlights, because I am shinning light on it.

If it does not exist, in your world, thank God, and thanks for avoiding it, thanks for not lending it any moral or material support.

If only we can all do the same.

Things can be falsely made accountable for the actions of people.

A dragon or not?

Insignificant, superfluous, fecal matter, or a word to the wise worthy of note, if it exists, and if it exists, then can it be rendered powerless?

If so, then to me, good things are bound to happen like this:

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

Lies do not infect the liars who invent the lies.

Who does that leave?

I don't know, in your case.

"He is not just playing video games and twitting. Education works...is a slow process...but is happening in some quarters. I see hope in that. Don't you?"

Much hope, more so now than ever, while at the same time, unfortunately, the level of ongoing destruction, on our dimes, appears to be peaking in many ways too.

If Rand Paul can be infected, whereby Dad is not, if that is the case, and I can't know, then, it seems to me, the Dragon is worthy of note, and that is my point.

The Dragon is in darkness, not in the light, so laughter, fun, profits, and good things are happening all around, even while the Dragon works in our sleep - for now - and even while our earnings flow to specific people who are now torturing and mass murdering innocent victims.

They scream bloody murder, some people take time to listen, some people want more.

Here is my vote.

Here is my dime.

It may be a good idea to slay that Dragon if it is infecting you, or your grandson.

That is not all that I am saying, but I am saying that much, because I think that that specific point is relevant to your grandson stepping into the battle where that Dragon sleeps.

I can sympathize.

There is hope.




Joe

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 02:11 am
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“If criminals hire a better liar to lie for them, what business is it of mine?”

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2790773 :

In post: July 4th 2013 Liberty Day Challenge

In reply to comment: Reporting at the Top (see in situ)

Accountability

Submitted by Josf on Wed, 10/17/2012 - 17:40. Permalink

" But if I don’t say what is going on in my mind, how can a Friend in Liberty help me?"

Your vote of sending Federal Reserve Notes to the National Government is the actual vote that counts, it seems to me, so whatever you do with the other counterfeit vote, the votes that won't be counted, is superfluous at best, and counterproductive in a measurable way, as you could have done something useful with the time you spend considering and then actually voting in the National Election Psycho.

You are actually playing with psychopaths, and that is the fact of the matter, in any way you may want to measure it, it ends up being participation in torture and mass murder made legal.

To me there will be a judgement day and on that day the vote you cast in Federal Reserves Notes sent to the National Legal Crime Cabal will count much more than your frivolous mark being placed on an official sounding National Election computer screen, or card, or paper ballot, but they both will say the same thing.

You lend moral and material support to torture and mass murder made legal and not just one person tortured once, legally, and not just one murder victim murdered once, since the scale of these crimes makes Hitler and the Nazi crimes pale in comparison since, as you have been shown already, it is the same process that was used to finance both Hitler and Stalin, and therefore the body counts are accountable to those specific people who invent, produce, and maintain (lending moral and material support) to that most egregious crime made legal that can be known by many names, such as The Dollar Hegemony, while it is denominated in dollars, or the World Bank, or the World Reserve Currency Power, or The New World Order, or Legal Crime, whichever word accounts most accurately.

Again, to me, your vote for Romney is pathetic compared to the flow of Federal Reserve Notes that flow from you, and all the other honest productive people, flowing to Legal Crime Central, so...

Who cares who you vote for in the staged, false front, National Election Fraud?

Not me, but I won't be the one inspecting your records on Judgment Day, so....

Buttons?

I have to sew one on my one good shirt, and I have to sew a pocket back one of my son's good shirts.

So...

What is really important, now that we have spoken about the pathetic stuff?

1.
End the FED competitively (not by replacing it with something worse)
2.
End the IRS competitively (same qualification)
3.
Bring the Troops Home (not to enforce submission to the new World Reserve Currency Power and not to enforce submission to the old one)

Romney?

What do I care?

Stupid is what stupid does?

Phrases in English?

Holes in paper?

Zeros stored on a hard drive?

Make more tomato jars and raise the kids to know better, they may need that effort by you in their future?

"But if I don’t say what is going on in my mind, how can a Friend in Liberty help me?"

Here again is how honesty works so much more competitively than dishonesty. What is the point? I can't vote for Romney, I do not want that to haunt me for the slightest increment of time, never mind for eternity.

If criminals hire a better liar to lie for them, what business is it of mine?

If Ron Paul is on the ballot, I have a reason to vote, because he may work toward ending the fed, the irs, and bringing the troops home.

Lesser of two evils dogma does not work on my conscience. I know better, and you should too.

If I am wrong, then someone, somewhere, could lay it out in a reasonable way, so even I could see where I am wrong.

No such thing has even come close, so far, in my travels.

Evil is evil. Stop supporting it and it will be supported less, and how can that not be obvious, and accurately measurable?

"He seemed to listen."

Please, yes, listen, and either improve the viewpoint or fail to improve it, but at least try to improve the viewpoint, instead of dismissing it, for what, in the hopes that it will go away?

If we were farmers and we found out our soil was gaining aluminum, barium, and other things, and that the PH was turning acidic, would hopping that it goes away do any good?

Who needs food?

Who cares?

Who cares enough to do something about any of these problems that are all linked by the same ONE THING which is that Dollar Unit of Legal Extortion, Fraud, and the required torture and mass murder that must accompany it for it to perpetuate?

I can't get far from the obvious solutions and I have my own competitive ideas as to how to accomplish those solutions.

1.
End the FED
2.
End the IRS
3.
Bring the Troops Home

Wishing that it goes away does not help make it go away.

"So, Joe, what can we do about it? How can we get enough American’s wake up over night?"

You answered that question already.

"He seemed to listen."

I've been at it longer. Seeds are planted. Nothing is done deceitfully. Nothing is done threateningly. Nothing is done violently when working on informing other people so that other people either know better or YOU know better with their help.

The solution is not in my power (alone) to execute, even if I think I know the solution.

Stop providing the means by which we suffer, yourself, and maybe your efforts to do so, which may or may not work, will inspire other people to copy the example or improve upon it.

Liberty works one way.

Legal Crime works another way.

When the Friends of Liberty fight Legal Criminals the Legal Criminals are the offenders, and the Friends of Liberty are the Defenders, if it comes to that, and it has in the past, so this is not NEWS.

"I didn’t even ask her why…because she is of the left bent. I just figured she was wrong. See how that works?"

In a dark room there will be a lot of stumbling around?

"Joe, what do you think happened on 9/11?"

The buildings were loosing money, so they had to be destroyed, the people who destroyed them made a profit, and the fact that they destroyed them with a lot of people in them was even more profitable for the criminals who destroyed them, since they could then make money on the aggressive wars for profit that was launched by falsely blaming innocent people for the crime of destroying those building while people were still in 2 of them. The third building was evacuated.

Afghanistan was on the list of place to destroy with aggressive war because of the opium that is grown in Afghanistan and because of the need to use the place to transport petroleum products, oil and natural gas, through it.

The demolition of those buildings on that day was a classic case of a False Flag operation, no different than dressing up as Indians, slaughtering White Settlers, blaming the slaughter of White Settlers on the neighboring Indians, so as to slaughter the Indians, and then take over control of the land that is occupied by the Indians.

This is not news, and the evidence of controlled demolition is uncontroversial, mere fact, there is no other way that buildings can fall at that speed that those buildings fell, near the rate of gravitational acceleration or Free Fall. No way.

It is an unambiguous case of willful premeditated murder for profit.

If you were on a Jury, real Jury not a counterfeit one, you could ask anyone whose profession is relevant to the case, and you could judge the case on professional evidence discovered during the case, and then actual people could be held accountable for those crimes.

No such thing has happened.

Why?

The NEWS (entertainment?) has many people blaming Osama Bin Laden?

Osama Bin Laden isn't even a suspect in reality.

The event is as farcical as was Legalized Slavery made officially legal with The Constitution, the Whiskey Rebellion, The Alien and Sedition Acts, The War of 1812, The Andrew Jackson attempted murder, The Civil War, The Lincoln Murder, The Gulf of Tonkin fraud, The Kennedy Murders, The Randy Weaver massacre, the Waco torture and massacre, the Oklahoma City massacre, Persistent Vapor Trails, and now this 911 farce?

Who is kidding who?

I'm not fooled.

I may be a fool, but those things are uncontroversial, there is an "official" lie, and then there are actual people making their crimes legal, people with names, people having reasons, people making profits, actual accounts, actual money trails, so on and so forth, discoverable facts were a Trial by Jury in force and applied to the actual criminals by the victims or by Friends of Liberty.

Due process of law only due in the form of taking productive power from productive people and then using that stolen loot to steal more?

I had a thought on this involving the concept of Mob Rule and illustrated with the Vampire story, but this is already a very long reply.

"...I have even had my faith shaken."

How can you remain faithful if you do not resolve contradictions that may appear to be contradictions in time? You are not God, so you will not know everything, and I thought that faith was earned, not handed to you on a silver platter, am I mistaken?

"But haven’t we talked about the cost of all the deceit?"

The rubber meets the road? The thin blue line? How can you know the difference between fact and fiction, given the demonstrable fact that we can be deceived?

I don't know. I am not God. I have to question my own judgment, failure to do so is ludicrous, deceitful, threatening, and can place me in violent situations - if I am not careful enough to question my own judgement where and when I can still afford to do so in time.

"I have no reason to deceive you."

I trust you on your word, innocent until proven guilty, and so far there is no evidence that suggests any effort on your part to deceive anyone, as far as I can tell.

___________________________________________
“….or merely maintaining a healthy boundary between public and personal information.”

Do you think I achieve that goal ok? I am pretty open an honest. I hope I do not report too much. I haven’t been taking part in forums for years. This is my first time.
_____________________________________________

That is your sphere of influence, your control, your judgement, not mine. I can say that I think we, as people, aught to express ourselves more, not less, and let the chips fall as they may, since the Sounds of Silence, to me, are deafening.

"I suppose jackals and piranhas yell fire…and thinking of it from your welcome explanation given Solzhenitsyn, it is to silence competition whereby ectropy would exist?"

Here is where I get my clues in figuring out the genuine articles, the real deals, the true Friends of Liberty, as their DATA, their MEDIUMS OF EXCHANGE, their MONEY, reaches the same or similar conclusions, as my own study. We may be wrong, of course.

Think about it.

What would happen in a world where no one could communicate anything with anyone else ever?

The problem with connectivity is such that destructive things can travel as well as productive things, and if someone were to confuse destructive things with productive things they may BLAME the medium of exchange, because they fail to judge accurately concerning what is being transferred.

This is very well illustrated with the concept of a species killing virus that rapidly spreads from one person to another person, from one city to another city, one continent to another continent.

What happens if everyone thinks that the virus is the cure?

There is no hope, we all die quickly as each person is working ever faster to get the cure, but the cure is the virus.

What is that in other words?

I keep repeating the same thing.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."

When the people who are being destroyed by despotism (Legal Crime) wake up: they then stop seeking the virus as if the virus can cure them.

Legal Criminals know this, and so they make sure that those ideas do not become current, those ideas do not gain currency, and instead of those ideas gaining currency, a virus called Falsehood is made current, gaining currency, through such things as Television, which is almost an ideal Medium of Exchange for Dictators (Legal Criminals).

What is a Legal Money Monopoly Power?

When human beings stop seeking the virus, as if it was the cure, they will look back at this time and they will wonder, as we wonder about the people in Germany during the Nazi regime, "what were they thinking?".

"I want to vote for Romney"?

What were they thinking?

It is pathological.

I can link another 3 books that you do not have the time to read.

"Josf, can you hear the lies?"

You want to vote for Romney?

Sure, I can hear the lies. It is pathological.

It is very unfortunate.

"There seems like so many different avenues to go down. CAFR’s, Vote Count, Ending the Fed, people yelling Fire, making competitive currency…"

I am not God either, so I have to question my own judgement all the time, but I do have an advantage, I suppose, in an ability to multitask, so I can enjoy those things that make me happy even while I work on The Problem (of self government).

"I suppose you cannot tap into one of those underground desert rivers?"

The Pacific Gas and Electric PG&E Case has many answers along those lines, including the documentation of how underground rivers connect on maps for specific areas.

This is a good place to go off on another subject concerning my Product 1 and Product 2 ideas, the practicality of it, but again the word count is looming large.

"Balance is in order…I have a family…I just don’t have time even though I don't like what I see as injustice, or playing dirty."

Spirituality, it seems to me, is the missing element that is needed for that balance.

I spent my life, my power, making rocks and sand for construction, for the most part, the productive physical part of my life, and what would I have done had I been more balanced, more productive, better, more connected with the concept of morality, productivity, spirituality?

God only knows and I'm going to be clued in on Judgement Day?

God is not done with me yet?

"We must make all things our business to know and to speak about?"

To me the principle at work there is the concept of any willful injury to anyone by anyone is an injury to everyone. The innocent victim on the table being tortured right now is not happening in your kitchen, and the fact that it isn't happening in your kitchen is merely incidental. You are next. You are paying for that torture, so you are next, unless you hire on as the torturer, and even then you are only delaying your turn on the torture table, there will always be a more powerful criminal to take your place when the number of ready victims become scarce.

That is the Might makes Right scenario. We each eat each other until there are two of us left.

Then what?

"We must make all things our business to know and to speak about?"

Yes if it concerns injuries to innocent people, no if it does not concern injuries to innocent people. Who is "we"?

"I already surprise you? How is that?"

I've been at this for decades, then you show up. Can you imagine my surprise?

"I think priorities as well as Boyd’s Observe, Orient, Decide, Act are on the path to balance."

Without morality, or spirituality, whatever word works best, the Decide part is directionless or will the decide part be directed by evil?

Shake up your faith, sure, but then what?

Flip a coin?

I don't think so, but you can still surprise.

"I am tired today, I am not pushing to much."

I can sympathize. I can not empathize, I don't have that in me. I can reply with my visit to my mother today, where she is fighting between the loss of mental power with morphine or the loss of mental power with pain, and she says: "I know other people are worse off that me". She is no angel either.

Relative to what?

What is the scale?

God is not done with us?

I have chores (to be continued and possibly edited - if this publishes - reminding me to cut and paste it to word)

"It seems to me that a Fire of Liberty has been set ablaze. Is it a controlled burn?"

To me this falls again into the category of two different worlds where you and I are targets because we produce more than we consume, and that is uncontroversial if there is a net sheet known as the Federal Tax "Liabilities", and our world is driven by equitable thoughts and actions, The Golden Rule, morality, spirituality, whatever word works best in any case in this type of productive world, our world, where we have less at the start of the day and we have more at the end of the day, on average, over time, while the other world is Might making Right, or Falsehood, Lies, Threats, and Violence, taking and using what is taken to take more, so you can try to figure out from our world what their world is like, but seriously, it is another world, so you can, at best, guess, and you can borrow from other people, Confessions of a Monopolist by Frederic Clemson Howe, or Confessions of an Economic Hit Man by John Perkins, Money Masters, whatever, the pieces start fitting into an understandable viewpoint, but how far from your world is that world?

Liberty is a POWER struggle as long as there are criminals who use deceit, threats, and violence as they injure innocent people anywhere.

Of course it is a controlled burn, but who, what, and where are people aggressively, willfully, burning other people, for fun and profit?

Whose business is it that Liberty is being burned out on purpose?

Is there false examples of Liberty being invented, produced, and maintained by Legal Criminals to divide and conquer those who would be effective at defending Liberty had the fake stuff not been in place to burn out defensive power as defensive power is thereby shunted, wasted, spent doing nothing or worse?

What do you think The Constitution is?

So Ron Paul says The Constitution is good?

If so then he is deceived. Does he? I think he says that Limited Government is better than unlimited government, and a Constitutional Limited Government is good, and so there is room to understand that Ron Paul means well, and is not deceived and he is also careful in making sure that he does not deceive anyone else.

How would you know a friend of liberty if one fell out of the sky?

"Did you hear Alex Jones interview Gary Johnson? Alex Jones even talked about Perot being a Clinton plant."

Alex Jones is a competitive News Reporter. He offers sources that the customers who buy his News Reports (or consume them for "free") which is a whole lot more than Entertaining "NEWS" does, but the Ross Perot event, as far as I know, was too damaging to Legal Crime to be anything other than damaging to Legal Crime.

I don't think a Legal Criminal would ever allow such as thing, as the Ross Perot thing, to happen if it can be avoided. A baseline was set, back when the National Debt was merely 4 Trillion, if I remember right, and now there is another ZERO added to that tally.

When is enough enough?

How do you know if you don't count?

Was all that Ross Perot and Ron Paul stuff staged?

Sure, it can be that, so as to usher in World War III, and the plan could not work as well without those adjustments made to the aggregate power of "public opinion".

I suppose.

I does not add up to me. I don't have the most powerful Legal Crime strategy ledger. I can certainly be wrong.

"That is good. Don’t believe words given by a human. Seek God with all your heart. Joe, will you ask Him to reveal himself to you?"

How is that not the same thing as curiosity? We do not see the same way, but I don't think the differences are of any great significance, not, for example, as different as us being compared with someone who employes deceit, threats of violence, and violence to get what they want from innocent victims, you know, voters in a National Election.

What do you think they want to get with their votes, not that they will get anything they want, but what is the driving principle as far as you can tell?

"I pray for you that you will be able to see."

I meditate, or just sit and listen, or whatever you want to call it when I am asking for greater understanding so that I can know better.

It may be correct to conclude that allowing these long posts to get too far down the list on this Topic is a factor in my having trouble with the forum error messages.




Joe

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 02:14 am
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“If all the Trillions of Dollars Spent on keeping the Monopoly Money Fraud Power maintained, destroying so much in that effort, was spent only on Solar Panels, nothing else, and sold at cost, or "given" away, instead of all that actual, measurable, destruction there would be how much production measurable as electricity and whatever was made with electricity?

How much would electricity cost if every bomb, missile, military base overseas, solider, food, clothing, supplies, shipped overseas, was turned back in time, all the way back to the decision to invade Pennsylvania by Washington in 1794, and instead of that investment in maintaining the Money Monopoly Fraud business, all that POWER was exclusively spent on making Solar Panels, how much would electricity cost per Kilowatt/Hour now?

What would the world be like if no one ever had to work another minute to pay for transportation fuel, home heating fuel, and every single business that requires fuel, POWER, no longer had to add that cost to the price of what they sell?

What, instead of spending all that POWER on destroying things to keep the Money Monopoly Fraud Power secure, was instead spent on making more POWER out of less POWER?”

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2839220 :


In post: Liberty Day Challenge July 4th 2013 V2

In reply to comment: Cost LESS Power (see in situ)

Ill gotten gains

Submitted by Josf on Sun, 11/18/2012 - 18:00. Permalink

"Do you know why I don’t have any gold?"

The cause of iniquity is ill gotten gains, and the nature of ill gotten gains is the same as the nature of lies, it is exponentially destructive.

Usury (not to be confused with interest) can be expressed mathematically as an exponential growth rate as POWER grows exponentially more scarce while fewer people gain by ill gotten means the larger percentage of the shrinking supply of power.

That is the name of the game, to gain at the expense of other people before other people can gain at your expense.

Look here:

http://prisonersdilemma.sergehelfrich.eu/

That is the human condition expressed mathematically.

Might makes right (people driven by that mode of behavior) is a virus that consumes, like cancer, living beings, the entire human race operating on that basis of might making right will consume the entire human race rapidly, starting out slowly, but the pace of consumption, each person at each other's throat, quickens and the end is a very rapid hell on earth, with the last two people have a dire need to kill each other or die trying.

The dynamics of that human condition, might makes right, is balanced by morality, and if the balance is exact, then there is constant conflict (destruction) WHILE there is a balanced constant of cooperation (production).

Power Consumption = Power Production

Crime Increases occurs in proportion of Liberty Decreasing

Power Consumption > Power Production

Crime Decreases in proportion to Liberty Increasing

Power Consumption < Power Production

How is Total Net Power Measured Accurately?

Not GDP (Gross National Product), since those books are cooked, but something along those lines, if done accurately, and what is the unit of measure?

If someone is moral, having an interest in investing earnings, having an interest in investing POWER into making more POWER out of less POWER, and doing so without harming anyone, then that individual has the method of operation necessary for survival alone, to stay alive, and then two people having similar goals, meet, and the combined POWER to make less POWER into more POWER is exponentially more POWERFUL due to division of labor, specialization, and economies of scale.

If there are no immoral people connected in any way to the group of people who are cooperative, what happens to TOTAL POWER and what is likely to be the difference between the least powerful person and the most powerful person as measured by the scale of Purchasing Power whereby the POWER of deceit is not a factor, and the POWER of threats of violence is not a factor, and the POWER of violence upon the innocent productive people is not factor?

Person A is X percent more POWERFUL than Person B, without the factor of ill gotten, criminal, means?

Who "owns" the most compared to who "owns" the least POWER TO PURCHASE?

Right now, for example, 1 person, or 1 group acting as 1 person (The FED), can write a check for as much POWER TO PURCHASE as everyone else using Dollars combined.

That is the definition of iniquity.

No such thing can happen without the crime factors of deceit, threats of violence, and violence upon the productive people.

If you want we can go through the math in the link provided to help illustrate the point and make the point relevant to this:

"Do you know why I don’t have any gold?"

You do not have ill gotten stores of purchasing power that you need to hide from other people.

You are not the problem.

If you had millions of dollars handed to you from a lottery ticket you found in the garbage then you would be "lucky" and the grey area of how that much purchasing power became your interest, your concern, or came to be within your POWER to control, to invest, or spend, or save, or give away, would be illustrative of this point.

You are not the problem, therefore you are most likely one of the victims.

So, suppose you won the lottery, and then in your hands, in your control, is a significant amount of Purchasing Power with which you have the POWER, responsibility, accountability, to control that POWER TO PURCHASE.

What do you purchase with many millions of units of purchasing power?

Is that YOUR problem?

When is it ever a concern for a moral human being to have to figure out a way to hide earnings from anyone else other than criminals?

What is the point at which a moral human being becomes so rich that the person is then beset with the onerous task of having to work at keeping the criminals away from their riches?

I don't know.

It has never been a problem for me.

Had I gained control of many millions of units of purchasing power handed to me I'd build a house facing the sun, burmmed into the earth on three sides for insulation, Solar Panels, Windmills, two water wells, an electric fleet of cars to run as a taxi service, a large lot, I'd sell Solar Panels and Electric cars, make and sell Electric Car Battery Trailers, some Modular Green House Vertical Farming Units, and be set up for a long life of earning power from the sun.

I could get that business going, and then sell it, make another one, and sell it, who would not buy, at cost, a self contained equitable business ready for a new owner?

I have no use for gold or silver and if I am no longer of any value to anyone, then I guess I'll be dumpster diving.

What is the point at which a person has so much "money" that they then have to start working, spending time and energy, keeping their money safe from the criminals?

The criminals that are to be worried about, it seems to me, are the criminals in the mirror.

Too many people have joined in the legal crime club, expecting to be handed something for nothing, and they have yet to find out the true cost of that decision, and when they finally get to judgment day, it will be too late to choose a moral path.

"My first thought about solar energy (and electric cars) is that it is too complicated. But, It seems some of the simple people can get it (solar energy) though!

If you buy one in so many years you can buy two and then in so many years you can buy four, and then eight. It is very long term investments, like buying an house, or buying a farm, or buying a productive business.

It is like an education. You buy a book, with your time spent reading it carefully, like the Bible, I suppose, there are very valuable things in the Bible, to help make life much richer.

The principle is based upon having less power today and having more power tomorrow, on a very small scale or a very large scale power gaining slowly over a long period of time or power gaining faster over a shorter time.

If all the Trillions of Dollars Spent on keeping the Monopoly Money Fraud Power maintained, destroying so much in that effort, was spent only on Solar Panels, nothing else, and sold at cost, or "given" away, instead of all that actual, measurable, destruction there would be how much production measurable as electricity and whatever was made with electricity?

How much would electricity cost if every bomb, missile, military base overseas, solider, food, clothing, supplies, shipped overseas, was turned back in time, all the way back to the decision to invade Pennsylvania by Washington in 1794, and instead of that investment in maintaining the Money Monopoly Fraud business, all that POWER was exclusively spent on making Solar Panels, how much would electricity cost per Kilowatt/Hour now?

What would the world be like if no one ever had to work another minute to pay for transportation fuel, home heating fuel, and every single business that requires fuel, POWER, no longer had to add that cost to the price of what they sell?

What, instead of spending all that POWER on destroying things to keep the Money Monopoly Fraud Power secure, was instead spent on making more POWER out of less POWER?

"I don’t know what short sale, selling short, is. I don’t even know what people say it is."

In that case DOLLARS are being sold. Dollars are being sold, and sold short.

You have dollars, you don't want them, you sell them short, you bet on the dollars becoming worthless. I think that is the general idea of selling short.

The whole mess is confused ONLY because people insist on using the one Money called dollars, and that BRAIN WASHING is done by way of a NATIONAL DEBT psychosis/pathology/narcissism FRAUD.

Ohhhhhhh, I need money.

What?

I need money.

Here have some gold.

Noooooooooo I need money.

Here have some silver.

Noooooooooooo I need money.

Here have some Solar Panels.

Noooooooooooo I need money.

Here have some worthless green paper with numbers printed on it.

HORRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAA! I have MONEY!

What?

Did I die and wake up in the Body Snatchers movie?

"So are you saying the shale oil production and new drilling in Texas is, in part, a diversion targeted at solar energy and electric cars because those ideas are becoming too powerful?"

The story was told and I don't know how true it was, and it concerned a 3 Term Presidency for Obama, so I don't put much weight in it.

I do know that the Central Bankers (Legal Criminals) cause small booms and small busts on a schedule, to keep the victims guessing, while the general trend is, for America, BUST, while the general trend for Asia, is BOOM.

So an Oil Shale boom in U.S.A. Inc. (LLC) sounds perfectly reasonable, a few years of counterfeit economic growth, throw in a lot of false advertizements on the Major brainwashing networks, and people feel better, feel safe, and the wars appear to be distant, and the TSA may be backed off too, who knows?

I don't.

The principle is that POWER does not arrive from nowhere, so if there is a small boom, it is powered by something other than pieces of paper or zeros on a hard drive in some official computer.

Wars cost a lot of actual power, so where does it come from, there are young men and women, they are consumed, what else?

Cotton?

Oil?

Brass?

Gunpowder?

Boots?

Vehicles?

Bombs?

What if all that new wealth, POWER, taken from the ground as oil, here in America, is not spent fighting the wars to keep the oil from being sold, keeping oil scarce in the Middle East, and that power is spent here at home making Solar Panels, Electric Cars, and Modular Green House Farming Units, for sale, at cost?

What happens if the demand for oil goes way down because people are driving electric cars powered by the sun?

No one can then get exited about sending their boys and girls off in uniforms to die or kill to make oil prices lower?

"Can you make enough energy thru solar panels to charge an electric car?"

The standard procedure has been such that an investor will buy enough Solar Panels to make enough POWER during the day to cover all the power they will use during the night AND during the day, so if the standard procedure includes the consumption of electricity in a car, then more Solar Panels are added to the total required number of Solar Panels to cover consumption.

Why are people not adding more Solar Panels and then selling the excess at competitive prices?

Brain dead?

The answer is that they are, and that is a new marketing strategy whereby a person calls up someone and then they pay that someone less per month, each month, for electricity compared to their current electric bill.

You call a Solar Panel company, they say yes, and you now have Solar Panels on your house, and you pay less per month for the same electricity.

The Solar Panel seller is loaning the money, placing Solar Panels on the house, and having the buyer pay back the loan at a monthly rate that is less than the current electric bill.

How can the be possible?

It helps to do the math.

"Or do we need an influx of competition making a better and better product which will be prevented by the shale oil boom?"

I think that one of the reasons why a World War is necessary, and America has to be gutted, taken down, is the new age of FREE ENERGY, which is not FREE ENERGY, it is Cost-Less-Power.

Already Oil Power is Cost-More-Power.

So the Oil Age is on the way out.

Oil has been the backing for The Dollar Hegemony.

Now what do they do?

Now that their Oil Age is waning, now what?

Allow a Free Market Competitor, or two, or three, to take over?

No, that won't be allowed, so it is time to hit the reset button.

"Is that like hedge betting? Maybe those people are hoping for monetary disaster so the gold will be worth more? So do those people try to make monetary disaster happen?"

Yes, join them.

That is the tune. They, or we, know that we are aiding, contributing, making, causing, driving, escalating, fueling, disaster, betting on disaster, but we do it anyway, because we are going to win, relatively speaking, and we have a lot of money to keep safe, so we are finding how to keep a lot of money safe. If we have a lot of money.

Do we have a lot of money?

The Federal Reserve Top of the Pyramid Dog, Top Dog, can write a check for as much money as everyone else combined. He does not have to worry about keeping his money safe, he has to keep the victims stupid.

I don't have that problem. Most people, some 90% of the population of the planet, do not have that problem.

If power was abundant, then power would not be scarce for 90% of the population of the planet, and power would not be something that has to be kept under lock and key by 10% of the population, or less.

About 50% of the population, it seems to me, roughly, are duped into thinking that they too, are among the rich, when in fact, they are merely expendable game pieces, doing useful things, things needed to keep the Money Monopoly Fraud oiled up.

Who makes all the bombs?

How much are they paid?

Here is a story:

My mother, who is dying, has a friend who is paid some 16,000 Federal Reserve Notes, I'm not sure if I remember the number right, for playing cards at the local Army base, most of the time for a month, while they are out in the desert, and then it is "show time" and they pretend to be Iraqi citizens and the Troops pretend to be "spreading democracy" on them.

Some play dead.

Some play wounded.

Some play scared as hell.

Same play like they are being tortured.

I don't know if there is a bonus for a really good show, but I can ask.

So...you have someone joining them, everyone has joined em, if you use dollars, you are a member if the Union, but the level of "interest" is interesting.

I'm not as interested as someone with 2 million Federal Reserve Notes in a Federal Reserve Bank.

My heart is not as well invested into it.

My heart is not in it.

"How about that for a chapter title: If you can’t beat them join them and then discuss how joining them actually ruins power/abundance?"

A next step is to pick a pamphlet size, a size of the paper, which makes me think, since I have regular letter paper printers, so that will be a possible determining factor.

I like that as a title. Which is Chapter 1?

"Yah, what about that angle? Wouldn’t the person with solar panels become a target? But I suppose if everyone had them that would not be the case."

You have explained, right there, that which is genuine "democracy" or "mob rule" as the counterfeiters are apt to call it. One person alone is not much moral power, not against an army of organized criminals. If things get so bad that a person with Solar Panels is more valuable to the bands of roaming criminals than a person with gold, then the person with guns and bullets is more powerful than the person with Solar Panels.

Hedge your bets wisely?

Guns and bullets are no good if you don't know how to use them, or you are incapable of using them, or unwilling to use them.

"Are you calling me a fraud?"

Please no, I went on another rant, speaking too freely, not being very disciplined, so please excuse the moment on the soap box: I was not speaking to you directly.

"I do though want to maintain value of money. That does not mean that I want to play a market or buy and sell. It would only mean that if I have some money I might want to put it into something that would retain value."

All that talk about investing in Gold and Silver is talk that is of interest to people who have a lot of accumulated wealth, and my question to anyone with enough wealth to inspire an interest in finding a safe place for it, is how did you get all that power when power is so scarce these days?

Without prejudice.

I do not see any need to blame anyone who has a lot of honest earnings, so don't blame me for such a thing, because I didn't do that, and the question is along the lines of knowing friend from foe.

Was the POWER ill gotten gains or not, and that is a fair question.

Someone has to be financing the Military Industrial Money Monopoly Complex other than my tax payments, and I don't get anything in return, I don't even get the Social Security I thought was an insurance policy taken out on my behalf in the event that I got sick, which is what happened, and I went all the way to a judge, and the judge said, basically, don't call us we will call you.

They said no.

So tax now includes a very high insurance bill to pay medical bills, as if all those years I worked, paying insurance, were actually a lot of years "providing the means by which I suffer".

So who is getting rich off the wars?

Not me.

Not the troops, at least not the low level troops, which would be what, anyone Colonel or Captain level or lower?

No, you don't get the profits, you just get the bill.

Who get's the profits? It is a fair question?

So...having trouble keeping your ill gotten gains?

What did you expect?

It isn't my problem. I can sympathize with those who have a lot of honest earnings, but how much sympathy? How about advice instead?

Get a house in the country, build it half under ground, burmmed on three sides, facing south, get a bunch of Solar Panels, a fleet of Electric Cars, hire drivers to taxi and sell the cars, what is the problem?

How about Modular Green House Farming units? I hear that the soil is now deteriorating, being contaminated with aluminum and barium, for some strange, inexplicable, mysterious, reason.

Hedge baby hedge.

"Why not send her to a pawn shop or where ever you can get a few gold or silver coins to retain the value of her money?"

My daughter was given a strong will, through genetics, but she also went to brain washing centers for a lot of years, so she is misdirected one way, and I offer advice, and she is 18 now, and so the power struggle is what it is even if I don't like it.

At least she isn't joining the army to spread democracy.

Baby steps?

"Why does it have to be either/or? Why can’t it be both?"

It does not have to be either/or and that is the point, each moral person IS responsible, and each moral person, by definition, pays their own costs, going on their own authority, not mine.

"So my $100 just sits turning into less and less as each day goes by. What should I do?"

Again, and I think the passage that goes "give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" applies. You are not even in the game, so those concerns (how much you can make money make money), do not apply, not unless you figure out how to supply a demand.

I think that there will be a demand for the information you are uncovering, so an investment now may actually be a book, and the accumulation of knowledge required to sell the book, but that makes sense to me, in the context of my present situation, along the same lines as learning how to work as a Common Law Lawyer, or run for office.

Tomato jars is the same thing.

You have scarce power in knowing better as to how to make more power out of less power, so what is the best investment of your scarce power now?

Figure out how to make more power out of less power?

Is that easy in principle and not so easy in practice?

"What should I do? Right now, I am doing nothing to preserve value."

Purchasing Power stored is a good idea, and I try to get my wife on board too, but we are currently undisciplined, both of us, that is our story.

I think Federal Reserve Notes aught to be stored somewhere for emergencies.
I think Gold and Silver aught to be stored somewhere for emergencies.
I think water, food, medical supplies, and fuel aught to be stored somewhere for emergencies.
I think guns and ammo and recent experience shooting at targets aught to be stored somewhere for emergencies.
I think that the most important power required, stored in your mind, is knowing that a fork in the road may arrive too soon and the right way has to be taken because the wrong way is too costly, and by that I mean that a person can become their own worst enemy if they are not prepared mentally for very challenging situations, where doing the wrong thing may appear to be an easy way out, including doing nothing.

Being a part of a family is a competitive investment - for example.

How do you manage to keep those individuals, power-less-alone, together, making more power out of less power?




Joe

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"Make the best of what God gave you; better than anyone else in your shoes!"

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2844268 :

In post: Liberty Day Challenge July 4th 2013 V2

In reply to comment: Spinach (see in situ)

OK

Submitted by Josf on Sun, 11/25/2012 - 09:51. Permalink

I have my assignment and it will only take an hour of my time - thanks.

Make the best of what God gave you; better than anyone else in your shoes!




Joe

Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2012 02:23 am by bear

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"Now there is a Consolidated Government or Legal Crime Cabal, and it is past time to be accurate with words - in my opinion."

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2858263 :


In post: Abortion: The Great Divide - What should be the position of the next Liberty Presidential Candidate? Why?

In reply to comment: Morality and Liberty (see in situ)

Problems

Submitted by Josf on Fri, 12/07/2012 - 16:11. Permalink

"Is it a problem that non tax payers vote?"

The problem is that the culture has grown up in a world were crime is legal. Whey you say tax payers, for example, do you mean victims or investors?

I say "tax payers" with quotes, because the taxes are not taxing people, the taxes are stealing from victims or, in cases where the transfer of earnings is voluntary, the taxes are not taxing those people, instead, the taxes are investments.

Person A versus Person B versus Person C as follows.

A says: "If the money I earned goes to someone who then murders babies in wombs, or babies in wombs living in a church in Waco, then I will not send any more of my earnings to murderers, since that makes me an accomplice, aiding and abetting, lending moral and material support to enemies of all that is good."

Person A is a victim if Person A is forced to pay those taxes or pay taxes of a different nature, such as being forced to go to the Gulag, be raped, beaten, or murdered, or just spending "time out" of Liberty watching television, who knows, the sign says Obey, or Pay, and there is fine print that says "without question".

Person B, on the other hand, knows better morally, internally, in what is left of human conscience, but any outward communication that may signal to other people that questions are being asked internally, may, fearfully, and terribly, cause that person tons of stress, so internal power is spent destroying the internal power to judge right from wrong, so Person B goes along to get along, reading from the script, each new day, without question.

Person C, yet again altogether different, pretends to pay taxes, while keeping two sets of books, one set of books to remain in business, to balance the income and costs, while knowing the nature of the game, to do unto other people before they have a chance to do unto me, and so the idea is to cheat, steal, and that is an investment, pretending to pay taxes, while creating and employing every conceivable loop hole, and at the same time promoting the concept of forcing other people, less inclined to "join em", to pay "their fair share" or else.

Your question again:

"Is it a problem that non tax payers vote?"

In the legal crime world, the world we live in, the world we were born into, the concept of tax is a synonym for the concept of extortion. If victims of extortion vote, what are they voting for, exactly? More victimization? The lesser of two evils?

If from cradle to grave a person like Ben Bernanke, a typical welfare mama, or papa, who knows these days, but typical welfare baby, anyway, draining the productive capacity of those who actually produce, do not pay taxes, they are on the receiving end of the extortion racket, so they don't pay taxes, but do they vote?

Does Ben Bernanke and any lesser well paid welfare babies vote?

Is that your question?

"Is it a problem that non tax payers vote?"

People who don't work for dollars, but are paid in some way, somewhere, in America, avoiding any transfers of earnings by never allowing the hooks of The Dollar Hegemony to sink in, votes?

Does that person vote? Is that the question?

What do you mean by voting? Do you mean spending an afternoon punching a hole in a card that will not be counted? Is that what you mean?

I'm not buying the premise of the question - at all.

"Is it a problem that non tax payers vote?"

If you can offer up an example of what you mean by the term non tax payer, a person with a name, then it can be understood better what your question intends to answer - with an accurate answer.

I think the problem is expressed this way:

http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/sense2.htm

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."

The Criminals have taken over, so the problem is not enemies foreign and domestic, so much as the enemies are between our own ears.

Like this:

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

There is no tax paying, it is all fraud, extortion, or criminals making risky investments that pay well.

There is no voting either, it is all fraud, extortion, or criminals making risky investments that pay well.

___________________________________________
"So...how do We The People emulate, nurture, and encourage any good behavior? "

According to Ben Franklin and his letter to T. Paine, prosperity was not the answer, but the answer lay in religion
___________________________________________

If natural human thinking and actions are synonymous with almost every religion, then why is there two words for the same thing?

If Ben Franklin or you, or anyone, views a person doing bad things and your conclusion is that the person needs religion, then you mean something specific, not just a word, you don't mean that the word religion is tattooed on the errant individuals forehead, or that his name is removed and a new name, this religion name, is put in place of his old name. You mean specific things common to people who mean the same specific things, moral things, such as your Gold Rules ideas, such as the moral things written in the scriptures you believe.

If the moral things are the same moral things, then they are the same moral things, no matter what name is used to communicate the moral things.

Christian Religion, the moral things, were the thoughts and actions employed by many of those so called Founding Fathers, the honest ones, and counterfeit versions of moral things, like campaign promises told in The Federalist Papers, to be broken of course, were falsely claimed, moral things falsified, by people in that same group called Founding Fathers, so confusing thoughts and deeds with names, such as Christianity, is risky, in my opinion.

We have gone over this before, since Christianity was the false front cover story for such things as the Crusades and the Inquisition; which are hardly well representative of moral things.

"So your words in conjunction with those offered by Franklin may be the reason the Bible was removed from schools so as to create a society lacking in morals…part of the farming scheme of the rats for profit?"

What do you think the Prison System is in this country? They are farming criminals. Those who don't fit into K1 through K12, for example, have to be indoctrinated in some manner, or else what?

What happens if people aren't "governed" to think immorally?

Might stops making right?

This:

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."

Heaven forbid?

As to your conversations with other people whereby you and the other person are speaking as if the National Level Crime Spree is legitimate in any sense of the word: I don't do that, so it has nothing to do with me, so I'll be a wet blanket in that party you are having with that person.

"Are you saying that it is none of anyone’s business and people should direct their power toward their own families and not the plight of the unborn?"

Not at all. I'm not the one dictating to other people what they can do with their power since I know better. People have power, and one of the powers people have is the power to employ their power - without my help.

Government is often confused with crime made legal, I don't do that, so you think I do, every single time. Why?

I don't.

I think government is the method by which people effectively avoid being victims AND avoid being criminals.

I think that murder is murder and if I had the power to help other people then I'd help them avoid becoming murdered and becoming murderers, so had I that POWER to help them govern that way, would I hold back?

No.

I'd help them self-govern a way to avoid being murdered or being murderers.

Why would I not do so, if it were in my power to do so?

Your question again:

"Are you saying that it is none of anyone’s business and people should direct their power toward their own families and not the plight of the unborn?"

I thought you knew me better than that by now, but old prejudices persist?

Nice, very nice, link to Ron Paul - thanks a million - that link it is a precious idea well communicated by Ron Paul.

So, if you are moral, human, a person with a conscience, then the deliberate, willful, murder of babies is a self-governing thing first, then a family thing, then a religious thing, why would there ever be a demand for a city ordinance, let alone a state law, let alone a supposed "National" law, or a Global Law?

Murder is wrong.

Is that a problem unique to babies?

No, this is an upside down world where fraud is legal.

Slavery was made legal in 1788.

Torture is legal.

Mass murder for lower gas prices is legal.

So the baby murder legal thing is thrown in too.

Sure.

Why is that confusing at all?

The "owners" of the "free world" are very evil criminals.

They may actually eat babies like Alex Jones reports.

Welcome to Earth?

Is it better to go back to sleep?

Cities are larger legal entities, that never should exist, except IN Liberty. What happens when they go bad?

You could have a Bad City contrasted with a Good City, if a Good City existed, but they don't, because the criminals took over at the TOP in 1788.

Crap rolls down hill.

It isn't any business of the Federal Employees to dabble in local murders, of babies, or Churches full of people in Waco, they are hired to deal with very large criminal armies and if they can't do that right then fire them.

Then you have a State, or mini-Democratic Federal Government, where the State is employed to secure Liberty against large armies of criminals, and if one State isn't big enough to fend off the very large army of criminals, then maybe 13 Separate States can manage to throw out the largest criminal army on the planet, that actually happened under The Articles of Confederation.

Why is it a concern of anyone hired at the State level or even the Federal level, or even the World level, if a single woman is somehow convinced that it is a good idea to murder a baby?

It is not, so then, whose job is it to help govern the actions of women who are being led down a very destructive path through life?

Not my job?

Who has that job?

The individual connected in some way to that pending abortion has that job, so make a license yourself, make an oath yourself, pray on your own volition, get up, go to that woman, and see if you can help her govern her own actions better than murdering babies.

How is that confused with this:

"Are you saying that it is none of anyone’s business and people should direct their power toward their own families and not the plight of the unborn?"

The State or The Federal Government can't think or do anything, those who currently counterfeit a State or a Federal Government murder babies for fun and profit, so what do you think the percent likely hood chance is of those people at the State and Federal Level of counterfeit government, what is the chance that they will stop murdering babies for fun and profit if you ask nicely for them to please stop WHILE you give them every calorie of your POWER that you earn that you cannot hide from them?

Null

"IMO What Ron Paul is saying is that any life not worth protecting will soon be yours."

Common sense, sure, I get that too, it isn't about pushing babies in front of you on the conveyor going into the meat grinder, so as to buy another day of terrible and miserable life on earth, it is about life being precious enough to preserve and reproduce, to increase the quality and lower the cost, for eternity.

I thought we covered this, but maybe not, as my view is such that there is a willful effort by those in POWER to destroy the will to live in their victims, this is hand and hand in harmony with destroying POWER so that the victims do not have the POWER to resist. A basic human POWER is to preserve the species, to ensure that human life goes on, and that common sense is being eroded, being destroyed, on purpose.

Depression probably hits women more than men because women are designed better at nurturing babies, which is a stronger POWER to preserve human life, compared to men. So...the effort to destroy that drive, in many ways, very scientifically perfected methods, to destroy that drive to live as individuals, and that drive to perpetuate the species, probably hits women much harder than men.

It is not natural, it is man-made, criminal man made, unnatural destruction of the will to live, and the will to perpetuate the species. It is easy to see once you know how it works.

So...absent that Legal Crime culture, all those lies, and all that torture, and all that murder, for 200 years, at least, absent that, would it not make sense that more people would care a little more if someone they knew was contemplating the murder of a baby?

No?

Let's dress the kids that we didn't abort up in uniforms and see if they can lower our gas prices?

"The abortion issue is an issue because it is meant to be an issue because it is another slippery slope whereby life and individualism is snuffed out, thus the snuffing of Liberty."

If it is a counterfeit or "Federal" issue (note the quotes), then it is a diversion. The actual problem is baby murder, so that exists, but to make any connection between the criminals running the "Federal" government and any intent to act morally is a grave error on your part, in my opinion.

Ron Paul is the exception, not the rule.

"Thus, liberty is dependent upon protecting life while it is that same jeopardizing of liberty resulting in despotism that causes the demise of life."

It is not a concern for the specialists hired to overpower large armies of criminals, or The Federal Government, which did exist under The Articles of Confederation.

Now there is a Consolidated Government or Legal Crime Cabal, and it is past time to be accurate with words - in my opinion.




Joe

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 Posted: Sun Dec 9th, 2012 02:32 am
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Joe's Law goes like this:

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production.

http://www.dailypaul.com/232137/joes-law :

The Fight for Liberty: http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/PanelTw

Many people may not understand the power struggle being fought as in that link as Ron Paul spearheads defensive action against the offenses perpetrated by the group of people known collectively as The FED.

A concept called Joe's Law can help in unraveling the very large web of deceit that covers up the crimes perpetrated by The FED group.

Joe's Law goes like this:

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production.

That is one sentence, in English, and it is an explanation of Political Economy and it can be used to answer the types of questions tabled in the link where Ron Paul is fighting against Legal Crime.

Question (asked in the hearing televised live):

1.
Do you think that the FED SHOULD be abolished?

If you are at all uncertain as to the right answer to that question, having any doubt whatsoever as to the right answer to that question, then please consider employing Joe's (Political Economy) Law to remove even the slightest shadow of doubt as to the right answer to that question.

The FED produces Legal Purchasing Power and therefore the question asked is a question concerning the legal license to produce Legal Purchasing Power.

Purchasing Power is Purchasing Power with or without the legal license, Purchasing Power is the Power to Purchase and that is an accurately measurable fact.

Rephrasing the question is necessary in the effort to make sense of it in the context of reasonable Political Economy.

First listen to the question asked and then listen to a rephrasing of the question so as to make sense of the question in such a way as to allow for a reasonable answer (removing ambiguity):

1a.
Do you think that the fed SHOULD be abolished?

1b.
Do you think that the single license to produce legal purchasing power should be abolished?

The reader may be confused even more after reading the revision of the original question, until, the reader now uses the revision in conjunction with Joe's Law as such:

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while legal purchasing power increases because power reduces the cost of production.

Do you think that there is a difference between regular purchasing power and legal purchasing power, and if you don't think there is a difference between regular purchasing power and legal purchasing power then it may be a good idea to figure out if there is a difference.

If there is a Central Bank by any name, such as The FED, then that fact is documented as fact on a legal account of legal purchasing power.

Take that Central Bank away, abolish it, and there is no legal purchasing power account, there may still be an account, but not legal.

What does the FED PRODUCE?

Does the FED produce wisdom?

Does the FED produce wealth?

Does the FED produce productive employment?

Does the FED produce a stable economy?

Does the FED produce a dual mandate?

Take away all the false window dressing, or pull back the curtain that hides the Wizard of Oz, and what is the accurate, indisputable, answer to the question?

What does the FED produce?

Counterfeit Money.

If it were not counterfeit then The FED would be producing wealth, actual wealth, actual power to purchase, and they would not need an army to enforce the value of it, as their money would be as valuable with, or without, the army backing it up.

Instead of a number of buildings filled with people at computers The FED would be a number of buildings filled with people producing powerful things, things of wealth, such as anything, anywhere, where money is needed to get these things that are things known as wealth.

The FED does not produce wealth, therefore the things that The FED does produce is something other than wealth, yet the LAW enforces what The FED produces as if what The FED produces is wealth, which is demonstrably not wealth.

How can it be demonstrated, beyond a shadow of doubt, that The FED produces counterfeit wealth, counterfeit purchasing power, or counterfeit money?

Take away the army that is used to enforce the requirement to use the stuff that The FED produces and see if anyone still uses it.

1b.
Do you think that the single license to produce legal purchasing power should be abolished?

The answer is demonstrably, unequivocally, matter of factually: yes.

It is, in fact, abolishing itself.

Why wait?

Way wait around for those who insist that it (The FED) is necessary to be shown that they are wrong, or that they may be lying on purpose (criminals), or that they may merely be stupid (duped), why wait for them to be proven to be the fools that they are, why wait for them to be proven to be criminals, and why wait around for those who profit from it (The FED) to use it (The FED) to steal as much as they can before they dump it, jump the sinking ship that they sunk on purpose, for something even more criminal, such as another World Reserve Currency Cabal run out of China, or some other place?

Why wait?

The reason for waiting concerns the collective power of falsehood shared by the ignorant victims.

If all the victims knew better they would stop being victims, they would not wait, and they would suddenly, and irrevocably, choose a more powerful option.

Like this:

"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
Henry Ford

Instead of hearings, and even instead of court cases, the former victims would be inventing, producing, and employing forms of competitive purchasing power rather than being forced by effective deceit, and instead of being forced by effective threats of violence, and instead of being forced by effective violence targeting the competitors, into the use of the one Counterfeit Money Produced by The FED.

In the effort to remove even a shadow of doubt as to the right answer to the question...

Which question?

1b.
Do you think that the single license to produce legal purchasing power should be abolished?

In the effort to remove even a shadow of doubt as to the right answer to that question I offer Joe's Law:

Power produced into oversupply...

Counterfeit power does not actually produce power.

The opposite is true, as counterfeit power produces nothing of actual value, so words can be added to remove any remaining shadows of doubt:

Productive Power Produced into oversupply reduces the price of power...

That means: So much wealth being produced by so many productive people that the limits of abundance of wealth is allowed to happen instead of limits placed on the production of productive power being enforced by criminals who profit by using the power they steal to eliminate all competition (producers of competitive power - actual power).

The Legal Criminals must make sure that no one else gains more power they their own small network of sociopaths. That is demonstrable fact, and those facts are actually well recorded in the documents that those criminals produce, in fact, but on a more principled account, the logic, and reason, of Power can remove all doubt about the right answer to the question.

Productive Power Produced into oversupply reduces the price of Productive Power...

That means: As more and more people are free to compete in the work that does effectively produce more wealth, more things of value, more actual value, more actual productive power, as more and more production is produced, the result of all that "economy" is a reduction in the price of all that "economy", as fewer people have nothing and more people have plenty, the stuff of value goes down in price, as a matter of fact, in reality.

Here is the part where Politics enter reality in the form of money:

Productive Power Produced into oversupply reduces the price of Productive Power WHILE Purchasing Power INCREASES...

If there is Legal money then that same, steady, known, finite, and accurately accounted for supply of that exact amount of money, without increase or decrease in that finite supply of money, gains purchasing power as Productive Power increases to a condition of oversupply and as the price of Productive Power decreases.

More power (more wealth) = lower prices of wealth (simple).

Lower prices of wealth and the same amount of money to buy that wealth, and each dollar can then buy more wealth, since the price of wealth goes down. Same amount of total money in use, more stuff to buy = more purchasing power per unit of money. Where 1 dollar could only but 1 thing, now there are 2 things, at lower prices, so 1 dollar now buys 2 things.

Simple.

Power produced into oversupply reduces the price of power while purchasing power increases...

Where does politics fit in?

If there is no legal money then there are no taxes and no demand to pay taxes, and therefore there is no connection between LAW and MONEY, but the Economic Law (without the political part) still applies.

Economic Law remains true with or without LAW.

What happens when crime is made legal?

People either believe in the lie, are led by such falsehoods, or they know better. But in the real world:

Productive Power Produced into oversupply reduces the price of Productive POWER WHILE Purchasing Power INCREASES with, or without anyone, anywhere, enforcing any TAX payments of any kind with any money of any kind.

If prices go down the same amount of money buys more, and that is also a fact, but there is one more thing to note:

Productive Power Produced into oversupply reduces the price of Productive Power while Purchasing Power increases (deflation) BECAUSE Productive Power reduces the cost of production.

Only the frauds and their victims choose to believe in life without cost, sometimes known as a "something for nothing" scheme, or Pyramid Scheme.

Buying into such things as "something for nothing", or Pyramid, or Ponzi schemes may be a very good investment for the Legal Criminals because the Legal Criminals reap all the rewards while the victims pay all the costs.

There is only one way to reduce the costs of production and that way is to store (by producing more than consumed) Productive Power and the only way to store Productive Power is to make more of it than the amount of it that is consumed during the process of Production.

Leaving even the shadow of doubt behind the reader can know better as to the actual answer to the question asked:

1b.
Do you think that the single license to produce legal purchasing power should be abolished?

Even the benefactors of such a ponzi, something for nothing, pyramid, scheme lose. It is unquestionable, irrefutable, and a natural fact, that everyone loses because the process of using Productive Power in the work of stealing Productive Power is the same process in nature when a parasite feeds upon a host and the parasite reproduces while the host is bled into a state of anemia, unable to reproduce, and the number of parasites increase while the host grows weaker, until the end result is a dead host, and the end result includes many parasites consuming each other, or some parasites finding another host to feed upon.

It is a race to the bottom, so why let the Legal Criminals keep score: they cook the books?

The only possible winners are the few who know better and the few who have a ready supply of new hosts to consume as these few parasites migrate from country to country each century that goes by while each host is consumed in turn.

By whose measure is that called winning?

America is almost bled dry, and the parasites on the top of that pyramid scheme are moving to China, when the measuring device is "The Dollar", when that dollar is produced by those Legal Criminals.

The parasites on top of that pyramid scheme will dump The Dollar Hegemony on their exclusive schedule, and you won't be getting the memo, and they will be moving their parasitic behinds to China, where they are now very busy booming that new host.

America, as a corporation, is being raided, and well documented, in fact, by the Legal Criminals own cooked books - The Dollar (The FED product).

America is on the bust cycle and Americans, fellow parasites, and fellow net producers (those honest people who actually do produce more than they consume) alike, those not "leaving it", those "loving it" for its capacity to afford honest production, or for its capacity to connect to those who do produce (and feed off of that capacity) alike, everyone, in America, is on the schedule to lose World War III.

Those who fraudulently take power here in America are using their power to wipe us out, maneuver us into a World War that we will lose, because that is how the War Mongers, the War Profiteers, do business, and Americans who still "believe" in the lies will be led into that slaughter as cannon fodder.

There is still time to know better.

Don't feed the Legal Criminals.

End The FED by inventing, producing, and employing productive power, or money, accurate money, in competition with the fraudulent stuff, and they, those parasites, will either consume themselves, find another host somewhere (very bad for the new host for sure) else, or they will be forced to depend upon charity, or they too will learn how to produce real wealth honestly and then they too will join the true Friends of Liberty because then, in our time, crime won't pay so well, it won't be legal anymore.

Ever again.

Not here, not on our watch.

Last edited on Sun Dec 9th, 2012 02:35 am by bear

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 Posted: Mon Dec 10th, 2012 11:30 pm
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bear
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Mana: 
"The clock aught to be turned back to 1788 to get an idea as to why The Civil War (not at all civil) had to happen, was made to happen, and how "citizens" became "targets"."

http://www.dailypaul.com/comment/2861226 :


In post: Abortion: The Great Divide - What should be the position of the next Liberty Presidential Candidate? Why?

In reply to comment: Did you read the link? (see in situ)

Criminal or Victim

Submitted by Josf on Mon, 12/10/2012 - 11:55. Permalink

Master of Slave

When the criminals take over they don't say: "You are mine, so shut up and work harder, I want more things to steal."

When the criminals take over they say: "I am here to help you, here is the bill."

Or in other words:

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/...

"But let us not forget that violence does not live alone and is not capable of living alone: it is necessarily interwoven with falsehood. Between them lies the most intimate, the deepest of natural bonds. Violence finds its only refuge in falsehood, falsehood its only support in violence. Any man who has once acclaimed violence as his METHOD must inexorably choose falsehood as his PRINCIPLE. At its birth violence acts openly and even with pride. But no sooner does it become strong, firmly established, than it senses the rarefaction of the air around it and it cannot continue to exist without descending into a fog of lies, clothing them in sweet talk. It does not always, not necessarily, openly throttle the throat, more often it demands from its subjects only an oath of allegiance to falsehood, only complicity in falsehood."

The clock aught to be turned back to 1788 to get an idea as to why The Civil War (not at all civil) had to happen, was made to happen, and how "citizens" became "targets".

Alexander Hamilton, connected too well to the British that was supposedly defeated in The Revolution, worked for and then had ready victims in what was then a Consolidated Government after The Federalist Papers (campaign promises made to be broken) Sold We The People a False Front, where The Articles of Confederation worked well enough to aid in The Revolution, but did not work well enough for a Banking Monopoly to take hold, so Alexander Hamilton, and his ilk, got their National Debt.

National Debt was being falsely advertized as National Credit, where in reality the seeds were planted to create victims who are led to believe that the victims are borrowing money from Central Bankers when in fact the Central Bankers are borrowing money from the victims, and the victims are then given the bill for everything the Central Bankers buy, and they buy wars.

They buy wars so as to consume all the power they can't steal, so as to keep their victims powerless to fight back.

If that does not make sense to you, what does that say about how well the scam works to this date?

http://www.ushistory.org/paine/commonsense/sense2.htm

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one: for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries BY A GOVERNMENT, which we might expect in a country WITHOUT GOVERNMENT, our calamity is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer."

They say that you have to borrow from them, when in fact they are borrowing from you, or in their own words: The Good Faith and Credit of the American People.

They don't mean themselves. They mean the Honest Productive People who actually start out in the day with less power and through their cooperative and productive work there is enough extra power at the end of the day to constitute something worth stealing.

You produce something in this Legal Crime Jurisdiction, now knowable as U.S.A. Inc. (LLC), and you become a target in direct proportion to the amount of POWER you produce, as you take the power you start with in the morning and by the end of the day you have produced something worth stealing.

If you don't get that straight, all this nonsense will render you powerless - at least that is the way it looks to me.




Joe

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